On 25 Oct 2006 12:38:35 -0700, miso@sushi.com wrote:

krackula wrote:

On 24 Oct 2006 23:34:10 -0700, miso@sushi.com wrote:

krackula wrote:

have you seen the  great  shows on the discovery channel about
the Red Flag training ?   pretty interesting especially the parts
about how they use  the special transponder locator pods, the
awacks airplanes and the  UAVs as part of their  equipment.

saw the map in one of the shows and the area used for training
covers  a huge space around and north of  nellis  with both the
NTS and area 51 right in the middle ........ BOTH marked as NO FLY
zones. in one show , a student strayed slightly into the area 51 no
fly zone and was canned from the program and sent home the same
day.  interesting  stuff ..........  lots of kewl looks at equipment
and instruments used for the exercises.

kinda explains why they have all those  foreign radar systems and
rocket launchers stored all over the place up there.  one scene shows
a scud launching as part of one mission and another scene shows
3 different large ground to air russian  missiles being launched as
part of the training .  recognized one " attack " area as some of
those  places  ( the circle target and the fake airfield w/ the bombed
plane on the runway  )  south of the old cabin on cedar gate road  !


kewl ..........

The movie Operation Red Flag shows the No Fly zone as well. It is
supposed to be a neutral country that has not granted overflight
rights. Break the box and you get grounded. Amazon has the DVD, well
actually two DVDs. One can be played on your DVD player, and the other
one is high resolution video that you need to play through the windows
media player. I did some frame grabs through (IIRC) the VLC player.

The scud launchers can be  real. However, some of the Soviet items are
fiberglass mockups. I've modified my TTR page with some text I pulled
off a DOD website, though I haven't uploaded it yet. Here is the info
on the mockups:
-------------------
79. Please briefly explain the operational and maintenance differences
between the MAZ 543, the MAZ 543 DECOYS, and the MAZ 543 STIX. How
interchangeable are these vehicles in scenario use?

Answer: The MAZ 543 Decoys are custom fabricated, medium fidelity,
units which visually replicate the authentic MAZ 543 Scud TEL. They are
mounted flat deck trailers (35 foot) which are pulled by Ford F-350
pickup trucks utilizing a 5th Wheel. The vehicle skin is composed of
fiberglass. Due to their fragile construction and past experience with
damage incurred due to excessive stress while moving on the Interstate
system, they are currently utilized on Tonopah Test Range only. This is
where they are stored and maintained. The simulated missiles can be
raised utilizing a winch system for visual effect. The decoys are only
moved into a position which replicates its current operational status
(Hide or Launch). It is only mobile in that it can be moved into its
exercise location and left until it is retrieved. Since the Ford F-350
is clearly visible, this unit is not utilized in a mobile configuration
during exercise execution.

The MAZ 543 STIX is really a MAZ 543 STYX. This is an authentic FSU
coastal defense anti-ship surface to surface missile system. The STYX
system is mounted on a MAZ 543M chassis which shares great commonality
(spare parts and configuration) with the MAZ 543 Scud TEL chassis but
varies visually in that the crew compartment is only on the drivers
side vs both sides of the Scud. This vehicle is serviceable &
operational short of firing a missile however its radar status is
questionable and has thus far not been employed.

Interchangeability of the aforementioned vehicles is driven by customer
requirements. Any deviation must be approved by the customer due to the
impact on customer testing, training or experimentation requirements or
criteria.

The MAZ 547A Chassis Only means that this vehicle has no payload on the
rear of the vehicle. These vehicles are serviceable (roadworthy), and
are available for customer use though without a payload, are limited in
their usefulness for other than testing and experimentation. No payload
means that the chassis from the drivers cab rearward is devoid of any
operational type threat system or stowage compartments.

83. ZILS required for Mission D6 is presumably the same as the ZIL-131
vehicles listed in the Pre-Deployment document and required for Mission
A7, B6, C1, C2, C4, and D6. Please verify or clarify.

Answer: The ZILs in question are indeed Zil-131s. TSMO has several
variants of this vehicle utilized for Scud operations as well as a
troop transport version. They are pre-positioned in multiple TSMO
locations. All Scud TEL support versions are located at Tonopah Test
Range, NV.
-----------------------------------
Current exercises have some new weapons. The past two flag have had a
unit or device called "dragon slayer." The last flag had "larry" as a
threat. Also, they are now moving the threats during the game.  I'll
try to have the new audio up by Wednesday.

If you want to do research on the ground units, googling TSMO is useful.

thanks for the interesting info  Miso ...... great stuff  and those
Red Flag exercises are kewl.   the end of last week had numerous
planes  skimming  right over nearby ridge tops ....... so fast you
barely got a look at them.  if you didn't happen to be looking in the
right direction , by the time you heard the noise .... they were long
gone.   saw the skies were filled ( from time to time ) with  a number
of  a groups  of two planes ..... one usually larger / faster looking
...... with it's  con trail showing  on and off marks of the after
burners ..... the 2nd plane , much higher and smaller looking .
one ( the higher one )  seemingly tracking the lower one and mostly
keeping in the same direction of flight.  it's a rush when one of
those  planes whoooshes  right  over head at very high speeds ......
fun !  it's amazing how they can fly so low and not hit things or
crash.

on those DVDs  ( or ? )  ... what is that part  showing  where they
are launching 3 simultaneous  missiles  ?  in the tv show they said it
was russian surface to air missiles but sounds like it might really
have been something else possibly scuds or ?? wonder if you recognize
that weapon or it's launcher ?   surely they weren't actually shooting
at the training aircraft !!   ha ah ah hah a

The Rolands are the only threats I've seen close-up. They have two
launchers, though I don't know if they can launch two at a time.
Rolands are European in design.

thanks .........