Loogie wrote:

Morris wrote:

On Mar 27, 3:28 pm, Loogie <boogieloo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nebuchadnezzar II wrote:

You're loonier than a tune.  You know that, right?

and what are the pilots, who have been trusted defending the USA in
fighter jets, and commercial airline pilots, trusted with flying us all
over the globe, who have said that the data and events in the 911
Reports are not correct?

More gibberish.  You're stuffing your words into their mouths to
further your nut-case agenda.  They say: "We do not offer theory or
point blame."  You don't say that, do you?

By your logic: If I believe them and I am loony for doing so then by
default they are all loony. If that is true then our nation is in great
trouble because the skies are filled with wacko pilots in a position of
trust.

They say "We do not offer theory or point blame."  That's not what you
say.

If they are correct then Washington is filled with maniacal, diabolical
mass murderers.

So...tell why should I believe you and not them? You seem to be so
fucking smart.

Believe them when they say what?  "We do not offer theory or point
blame."
is what they say.  You don't say that at all, and you offer plenty of
discredited theories.

I will be surprised if you can answer this in a logical manner.

The fact that you use the pilots, who say themselves "We do not offer
theory or point blame." to shore up your nonsense and fact-less
"theories" and support your whacko crank conspiracy hallucinations and
blame those whom you've already instantly determined to be the guilty
parties, is proof that you're little more than a loud mouthed kook.

Besides, until the legitmacy of this new group is known, anything they
say is worthless.  The 9/11 scholars turned out to be on a fishing
expedition and had no qualifactions or standing except for the fact
that they were politically motivated loonies and discredited kooks.

So Morris I see you read the first paragraph of that website, became more of an experts than the pilots and then decided to shoot the messenger instead of looking at the contents of the site.

Here let me help you...I have pasted the portion of the site dealing with the Pentagon.

Your fixation on attacking me rather than reading the info with an objective mind only proves the theory of "don't bother Morris with the truth. His mind is already made up."

These guys while not pointing fingers at anyone, are pointing fingers at the evidence and saying that there is NO FUCKING WAY THAT FLIGHT 77 HIT THE PENTAGON... If that makes me a nut job for believing what they say...then so be it but I think you are the nut-job if you do not believe what they say.

L

---------------------------------------------------------------------

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/pentagon.html

Questions for the US Govt regarding AA77 Flight Data Recorder.

1. The current FDR shows 480' MSL True Altitude, too high to hit the light poles. What are your findings of True Altitude at end of data recording 09:37:44. Why did you provide a Flight Data Recorder that shows the aircraft too high without a side letter of explanation? How did you come to your conclusion.

The suicidal hijackers didn't care to set their altimeters moments before their death.

2. What is the vertical speed at end of data recording :44. How did you come to your conclusion.

3. What is the Absolute Altitude and end of data recording? How did you come to your conclusion.

Because that's the reading at the end of the data recording.

(are these "pilots" really that stupid)

4. Why does the csv file show the altimeter being set in the baro cor column on the descent through FL180, but the animation altimeter does not show it being set?(This is a blatant cover-up to confuse the average layman in hopes no one would adjust for local pressure to get True Altitude. Too bad for them we caught it).

Why don't you ask the people who made the animation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzR-q0ijbV0
Notice how the description claims "It has not been altered by anyone after it was received from the NTSB."
Are the pilots trying to claim that the NTSB inserted the comments ("Not worried about intercept?", "Where are our defenses?", etc.)

Of course, they also say "Whether or not this animation is authentic, i defer inquiry to the NTSB." So they don't even know if it IS an NTSB animation... but "It has not been altered by anyone after it was received from the NTSB."

Real credible, pilots. Real credible.

5. Why do the current G Forces for the last minute of data correspond to the changes in vertical speed, yet at end of data :44-:45 it shows an increase in vertical speed never accounting for any type of level off to be level with the lawn as shown in the DoD video?

As above.

6. Do you have any video showing a clear impact and/or of the plane on its approach to impact?

How many times do they have to say "no" before the idiotic conspiracists hear it?

7. Why does your animation show a flight path north of the reported flight path?

Your animation?
"Whether or not this animation is authentic, i defer inquiry to the NTSB."

8. Why are there no system indication of any impact with any object up to and after :44?

Because the leading edges of 757 wings don't have impact sensors on them.

These pilots ask some really stupid questions.

9. Why does the csv file and animation show a right bank when the official report requires a left bank to be consistent with physical damage to the generator?

"Whether or not this animation is authentic, i defer inquiry to the NTSB."

10. How did you come to the conclusion of 09:37:45 as the official impact time?

They didn't. It's 09:37:44.

11. What is the exact chain of custody of the FDR? What date/time was it found? Where exactly was it found? Please provide documentation and names.

Did they even bother to ask the FBI that question, or do they just post the question on some obscure website and then claim it's unanswered and thus part of a coverup?

12. Why does the hijack timeline show a 3 min interval for hijacking to take place? Why was Capt. Burlingame reported to have not followed protocol for the Common Strategy prior to 9/11?

It's a little difficult to follow protocol when there are 5 people trying to slit your throat.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

07/20/06

Analysis of 9/11 Commission Report prior to release of Flight Data Recorder

First let me say I offer no theory or speculation. I definitely do NOT offer that is was a missile, global hawk or otherwise. All the following will be facts (according to reports) and questions.

So, i started with NTSB, since they are the "go-to" guys when you want a report.. right?

This is what i get...

Summary.
"The Safety Board did not determine the probable cause and does not plan to issue a report or open a public docket. The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The Safety Board provided requested technical assistance to the FBI, and any material generated by the NTSB is under the control of the FBI. "

Full report here.
NTSB report All reports from the NTSB for all 4 planes on Sept 11 are identical.

Ok, sounds reasonable. So lets check with the FBI reports.
http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/penttbom/aa77/77.htm
Thats all i can find from the FBI.

Not very good at investigation then, are ya?

So, lets go to the 9/11 Commission report.
"At 9:29, the autopilot on American 77 was disengaged; the aircraft was at 7,000 feet and approximately 38 miles west of the Pentagon.59 ....

At 9:34, Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport advised the Secret Service of an unknown aircraft heading in the direction of the White House. American 77 was then 5 miles west-southwest of the Pentagon and began a 330-degree turn. At the end of the turn, it was descending through 2,200 feet, pointed toward the Pentagon and downtown Washington. The hijacker pilot then advanced the throttles to maximum power and dove toward the Pentagon.60...

At 9:37:46, American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, traveling at approximately 530 miles per hour.61 All on board, as well as many civilian and military personnel in the building, were killed."

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. The footnote "59, 60, 61" refers to The Flight Path Study of American 77 provided by the NTSB, which no one can find.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc02.pdf
These pilots REALLY SUCK at conducting an investigation

One person claims to have called the NTSB and the NTSB says they havent done any reports/analysis for any of the aircraft of Sept 11. NTSB phone in DC (202)-314-6000. I tried, but i hit brick walls. Update: 8/11/06 NTSB Flight Path Study released.

So, lets go on what we have. The last known altitude reported for AA77 was 7000 feet. And travelled 33 miles in 5 minutes. Thats 6.6 miles per minute or 396 knots (Update: FDR data shows 325 knots average airspeed. 9/11 Commission Report is inaccurate). Then the aircraft began a 330 degree spiraling dive, leveling at 2200 feet to accelerate to the Pentagon while continuing descent. He started the maneuver at 7000 feet, 396 knots, dove almost 5000 feet within a 330 degree turn and covered 5 miles in about 3 minutes. According to the 9/11 Commission Report, the final impact speed was 530 mph. Update: FDR is now available and the 9/11 report is inaccurate in terms of impact speed.

So lets take an avg speed throughout the dive of 430 knots (7 miles/min). We know a standard rate turn is 2 mins for 360 degrees. So lets say he completed the turn in just under 2 minutes. Since we dont know bank angles or speed. That means he was descending at better than 2500 fpm dropping almost 5000 feet only gaining 30 knots. No problem for guys like you and me, but for Hani? We'll get to him later...

Once this maneuver was completed, without going into a graveyard spiral, he started to pull out of the descent at 2200 feet and accelerated only 30 knots more at full power to 460 knots in a descent from 2200 feet to the pentagon in about a minute (Whats Vmo at sea level for a 757? Flap speed? Since it looks like he may have found the flap handle only accelerating 60 knots from 7000 feet, the from 2200 feet at full power). AA77 crossed the highways, knocking down light poles, entered ground effect, didnt touch the lawn and got a 44 foot high target (Tail height of 757) into a 77 foot target completely, without overshooting or bouncing off the lawn, or spreading any wreckage at 460 knots. With a 33 foot margin for error. Wow, impressive. Takes a real steady hand to pull that off. I know it would take me a few tries to get it so precise, especially entering ground effect at those speeds. Any slight movement will put you off 50 feet very quickly. Im sure we all would agree.

One thing I would agree with: I don't want the yahoo who wrote the above to ever be at the controls of any plane I'm in.

So, who pulled off this stunt?

Hani Hanjour. Reported to have 600TT and a Commercial Certificate (see quotes right margin). Hani tried to get checked out in a 172 a few weeks prior at Freeway Airport in MD. Two seperate CFI's took Hani up to check him out. Baxter and Conner found that Hani had trouble controlling and landing a 172 at 65 knots. Bernard, the Chief CFI, refused to rent him the 172. I have instructed many years. I have soloed students in 172's when i had 300 hours as a CFI. How anyone could not control a 172 at 600TT and a Commercial is beyond me. Flight Schools keep going till you "get it" if you are a bit rusty, and then rent you the plane. They are in business to make money after all. .right? The Chief CFI basically refused any further lessons and basically told him to get lost. All this can be confirmed through google searches.

Later, a week after Sept 11. Bernard, the Chief CFI, made a statement saying, "although Hani was rejected to rent a 172, i have no doubt he could have hit the pentagon." What?? Bernard, who didnt even fly with Hani, doesnt know the maneuver involved, where the plane hit, the speeds, etc etc.. says he has no doubts that he could hit the pentagon? Sure, my grandma could hit the pentagon. How about looking into the maneuver before making that statement? He made that statement while the pentagon was still smoking for petes sake. A bit of monday morning quarterbacking if you ask me. A common theme among inexperienced pilots.

Of course. The Chief Flight Instructor must be an inexperienced pilot. How convenient that these "pilots", who claim no one can find a document it took me 11 seconds to find, can simply claim the CFI is inexperienced.

This also can be verified via google searches.

So, to sum up. Hani Hanjour, took a 757, with zero time in type, did the maneuver described above, a 400 knot 330 degree sprialing dive at 2500 fpm, only gaining 30 knots, then 30 knots more descending from 2200 feet at full power, with a very steady hand as to not overshoot or hit the lawn, inside ground effect, at 460 knots impact speed, but was refused to rent a 172 cause he couldnt land it at 65 knots? C'mon... sounds like a bad B movie... Please see right margin for more testimony regarding Hani and his training.

In case these pilots didn't notice, Hanjour had no interest in landing.

My conclusion is, the manever looks possible, for guys like me and you. But for Hani? unlikely.

Why? If these yahoos can do it, I'd be willing to bet nearly anyone could do it.

He either got REALLY lucky, or someone/something else was flying that plane. Sure wish we had clear video of a 757 hitting the pentagon to silence all these "Conspiracy theorists". They want us to believe the pentagon is only covered by a parking gate camera? C'mon...

You want us to believe that the DoD is going to point security cameras at a blank brick wall?
C'mon...

For anyone wanting to do further research on the subject.

Or any research on the subject.

Almost all the circumstances surrounding 9/11 have similar scenarios. Hell, they didnt even match up the parts found at each site to their airframes via maintainence logs. There is an article out there that states all the parts were returned to United two weeks after Sept 11.

Really? Did United ever ask why the parts from AMERICAN Flight 77 were sent to them?

Doh!