Re: Ground sensor

On Jan 30, 12:12�am, rv58 <nv89...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 30 Jan, 05:14, "m...@sushi.com" <m...@sushi.com> wrote:

On Jan 29, 10:54�am, rv58 <nv89...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Wonder how much one from out there would get on Ebay.
There may be some un-used ones on public land just waiting to be
picked up.

Well Chuck Clark could tell you about those kind of adventures. ;-) I
suggest leaving the ground sensors in the ground. Lately I can't get a
camo dude to even snoop on me. Last time I went to Bald Mountain,
nobody showed up. The same goes for Road Block Canyon. �We didn't
cross the border even though the warning signs are gone.

There are Vietnam era ground sensors that show up surplus from time to
time. My problem is they use frequencies in the air band. I don't
recall if civil or mil air, but either band is not cool nor legal to
transmit on. I don't even like those cheap FM transmitters since they
could wander into the civilian air band. Not so much danger with the
low power transmitters, but the bootleg FM stations can be trouble.

Murphy Surplus has those Vietnam era ground sensors from time to
time.

Regarding unused sensors, it is hard to say. You would think a dude
would just pick up unused sensors. They will certainly be ruined by
the cheap ass 9V batteries used to power them that will eventually
leak. I've got the schematics for the ground sensors. Very primitive
design and marginal (OK, non-existent) power management. They
literally parallel a pile of 9V batteries. I could see the dudes
wanting to get rid of sensors since they are a maintenance hassle.

Locating an unused sensor wouldn't be all that hard. They are
generally on both sides of 4 way intersections so direction of travel
can be detected.

Getting back to the sensors, I never found a "people sniffer" sensor
for MIDS or EMIDS. You can't prove a negative, but I think their use
on the range is speculation or rumor.


Could be they don't even use any ground sensors now,there seems to be
a suggestion that even many cameras are dummy types.If you will,why
bother with folks outside the fence thats public land just go get 'em
when they are on their side.Is that why they didn't show up when you
visited places they nearly always showed up.


Note we never crossed the border, but they would always show up to
"defend" the border in the past. I don't think they wait for you to do
something stupid, but rather present a show of force. Granted since
they don't exactly tell you why they are there, you really don't know
they are a show of force unless you read the signs and put two and two
together.

I go back and forth on the reality of the cameras. I will post some
more recent camera photos this weekend. I am now back in the camp of
thinking they are real again. Desert Shadow and I were at the front
gate in not so great weather. [I've done this before in a SUV, but he
had street tires!] Anyway, the camera that I could look into it's
"eye" (and see it's soul, no wait, that was Bush and Putin) was clear,
so it must have a heater. The cable going to the camera is fatter than
the previous photos I have. Also, the camera housing is different
since Cohu can clearly be seen. The old housing had no visible text.

So I'm back to thinking they have a minimal show of force at the
border, with cameras and dudes. Perhaps not as blatant since one of
the deadly force signs is now covered up. There is something to be
said for keeping the perimeter a bit understated so as to not attract
attention. [A local doctor built a 25k square foot house with a 5k
square foot guest house, but had a really cheesy gate at the road.
Why? So as to not attract attention. Less is more.]

Road Block Canyon is another story. I don't think they could use road
sensors there since it doesn't have line of sight to any
infrastructure. However, they could easily spot a car on the road with
a camera. Commercial versions of a program like zoneminder would
detect the frame change and capture the image.

The problem with road sensors is maintenance. They have to wait not to
be seen, but really, can they be sure nobody is watching? They have to
tread lightly since any ground disturbance can be seen. Worse of all,
anyone that really wanted to find a ground sensor could do so with a
nonlinear junction detector. If there ever was an environment where
that scheme would work, it would be on the Nellis range. While people
think of the range as a "hotbed" of radio activity, it is really very
quiet compare to any urban setting.

I was watching a thermal imaging demo at a trade show. They can spot
disturbed ground quite easily. We're talking about a box that rents
for $200 a week. Some jerk could wipe out the base of all sensors if
they wanted to very quickly.

There is one thing to note. If the sensor still has battery power, it
has a tamper detection circuit. Basically a tilt switch. The second
Chuck dug up a sensor, this was known. Chuck says he would record the
settings and put them back. Knowing Chuck, if he says this, I would
believe it. So I believe he was scape goated into admitting he took a
sensor. It costs a lot of money to defend yourself from the law, but
nothing to admit guilt, especially in situations where the outcome
could be jail. The stats are something like 95% of all arrests don't
go to trial.  If Chuck drove off with a sensor, it would be chirping
all the way back to his house. Now I suppose he could have yanked the
batteries, to limit the chirping.

I did a check of Muphy's website and he has some really old ground
sensors for sale. Probably only worth it for the geophone, and even
then, kind of pricey. From what I could tell, they were training
devices, so no radio interface. For at least two years, Murphy has had
an X-band perimeter detection set for sale for about $2k or so. [I
have no clue what they retail for.] This is the system used at Edwards
south base. He also has some old Firefly IR beacons, which I think are
still used. You could set one off and see if the SAR chopper comes to
rescue you. Just have a good story ready if they do.