| Subject: Re: JEFX over Pahrump 4/22 |
| From: Ron |
| Date: 24/04/2010, 05:52 |
| Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.area51,rec.aviation.military |
On Apr 23, 10:00 pm, "m...@sushi.com" <m...@sushi.com> wrote:
On Apr 23, 7:36 am, obviouslydelusional
<obviouslydelusio...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 10:53 pm, "m...@sushi.com" <m...@sushi.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 10:33 pm, obviouslydelusional
<obviouslydelusio...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 11:40 am, "m...@sushi.com" <m...@sushi.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 7:14 am, 150flivver <timothyw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 22, 12:06 am, "m...@sushi.com" <m...@sushi.com> wrote:
On Apr 21, 7:05 pm, <nos...@notreal.com> wrote:
In article <ff71e2d8-47a2-49ed-b837-c416a8b7d963
@x18g2000prb.googlegroups.com>, m...@sushi.com says...
The JEFX exercise running now at Nellis is supposed to have some sort
of activity over Pahrump. This is the notam for the event.
A0984/10 - QRACA THERE IS A STATIONARY ALTRV IN THE PAHRUMP NEVADA
AREA BOUNDED BY THE FOLLOWING
POINTS: 3622N/11554W 3604N/11554W3604N/11612W 3630N/11630W 3630N/
11610W TO POINT
OF ORIGIN. ACTIVE FROM 10000 TO 14000 WITH HIGH SPEED MILITARY
AIRCRAFT. ALL
NON PARTICIPATING TRAFFIC IS ADVISED TO AVOID THIS AREA. NOTE: THIS
ALTRV EFFECTIVELY
CLOSES V135 BETWEEN
10000 FT-14000 FT DURING THE ACTIVE TIME FRAME. SEE TEXT - SEE TEXT,
22 APR
19:00 2010 UNTIL 22 APR 22:00 2010. CREATED: 17 APR 19:22 2010
This translates to more or less:
There is an altitude reservation in the Pahrump Nevada area bound by
(coordinates) from 10000 to 14000 ft above ground level with high
speed military aircraft. blah blah 22 April noon until 3PM PDT.
I'm told the ground staging is at the Calvada Air Park.
I am not sure if that is a NOTAM or not but as a rule, I would be very
surprised if they gave an advisory to pilots that was in AGL and not
MSL. Just about everything I am familiar with concerning altitudes for
aircraft is given in MSL as that is what the standard barometric
altimeter indicates. Also it would drive the pilot crazy trying to
figure out AGL, particularly over uneven ground as it would be
constantly changing.
That is a notam since I copied it fromhttps://www.notams.jcs.mil.
There is a transitional altitude where you change from AGL to MSL. If
you are flying low, you want AGL since the maps have obstructions in
AGL. After the transition altitude, you fly MSL so ATC can maintain
vertical separation. Also above the transition altitude, you fly at
flight levels, not altitude per se. I'm not a pilot, but that is my
understand of how they write the notams.
There was a classic Blue Angels accident related to AGL versus MSL.
Since you are not a pilot, you shouldn't be posting assumptions as
fact The notam closes a victor airway between 10000 and 14000 ft
MSL. No one flies AGL altitudes on victor airways. . In the US,
transition altitude is 18000 ft above which you fly flight levels
instead of MSL. Below transition, everyone flies MSL altitudes, not
AGL.
If you reread my post and do so with care and caution rather than just
skimming it, you will confirm I never translated the portion regarding
victor airway. Thanks in advance.
You are correct you really mentioned nada about the Victor portion,
but I gotta agree with Attitude Boy, the 10,000 to 14,000 values are
MSL not AGL. I am only familiar with the use of AGL values in either
relatively low fixed obstructions or in notifications of terrain
hugging operations. Be advised I am not a pilot, but I play one on
the Internet. I shall now return to lurking.
I don't have a problem with being corrected. I have a big problem with
attitude. It is non-productive. Granted, there is no way to police
usenet from those with shall we say issues?
So when is AGL appropriate? Are you saying the barometric pressure is
reset before reaching the transition altitude?
If there's no attitude then it's not Usenet.
AGL is used when reporting cloud bases or ceilings. Cloud tops are
MSL. This allows pilots to determine if VFR flight is doable beneath
any clouds. On sectionals, ground based obstructions are first shown
with the MSL height, then often with the AGL height in parentheses.
For NOTAMs, if something is going on in close relation to the ground
(i.e., temporary tower), it might be given in AGL. Generally pilots
use MSL unless it specifically states AGL. When pilots fly at 18,000'
or above, they set their altimeters to a standard of 29.92
I get the transitional altitude change, but how are you dealing with
MSL when your barometer is set for the airport pressure. That is, you
haven't reached the transitional altitude yet.
Oh, thanks for not bitch slapping me and insulting my mother. ;-)
When you set "airport pressure", you then have MSL. . On the
altimeter, when you dial up the barometric pressure, you are actually
not dialing in the barometric pressure, but are instead putting in a
correction factor to compensate the altimeter for higher or lower than
standard pressure. On a standard day, Denver or Albuquerque would
certainly not have a real field pressure of 29.92 on the ground
there. Put putting in there a 30.12, means it is .2 higher pressure
than standard, and if you could go down to sea level below Denver or
Albuquerque, it would be 30.12
if you set an altimeter to 29.92 on the ground, you have pressure
altitude, which shows what the altitude is actually affected by higher
or lower air pressure.
And like is said, you put in 29.92 when going through 18,000, and at
that point you deal with altitudes as Flight Levels based on pressure
altitudes. FL 190 is not 19000 ft above sea level, because the
actual real altitude above sea level varies as the air pressure one is
flying through, is changing, since one is not adjusting the altimeter
for pressure changes