On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 22:37:16 -0700 (PDT), "miso@sushi.com"
<miso@sushi.com> wrote:

I doubt anyone reads this newsgroup since John Winston fucked it up
with his psychotic rambling bullshit, but I thought I'd look at this
old post regarding inconsistencies in the Skunk Works book. In fact I
thought I addressed this post, but apparently not.

Here is the original post:
--------------

1.  Gosh Darn

Does anyone have the book by Ben Rich and Leo Janus?

       Even the date in the General Welch text seems wrong, saying he
met with Fubini and Perry in 1976, when Perry was supposed to have
come into office with the Carter administration in 1977.

        And the first sentence in the book seems inconsistent, and
the part where  a high ranking official viewed Have Blue at the
"remote base" in the summer of 1977, but Have Blue #1
wasn't there until November of 1977, in fact wasn't
even assembled in the summer of 1977.

         I can't think of any reason to alter dates intentionally,
and
surely the authors or the proof readers would catch such obvious
inconsistencies as the claim of Have Blue flying over a radar
range well after both Have Blue articles had supposedly
crashed.

         Maybe I will never know the truth, many of those
involved are gone, and few people seem interested
in factual reporting.

Ken
---------
Page numbers using the hardcover version of Skunkworks:

Gene Fubini 302-303, 304, 310

General Welch: 240, 258, 317
with quotes on 41-42, 97-98

William Perry:
B-1 305
quotes 347-350
stealth 41, 42, 63-64,72, 273, 276-277, 302-309. 347

I don't see any common ground between Fubini and Welch. Just look at
the page numbers.

Now Welch and Perry might intersect on pages 41-42. Welch attends a
meeting held by Perry in 1976. The meeting was to discuss building an
operational stealth aircraft (who builds a nonoperational aircraft). I
suppose this would be the beginning of Have Blue.

        Perry was in private industry in 1976, AFAICT, he
only joined the administration after Carter was in.

       I am beginning to think maybe Ben Rich was pushing
a fighter based on the D-21 drone shape and RCS, and
then Perry in the late spring of 1977 specified all flat
surfaces, they could have had the frame, wheels and
engine in and changed the outer shape in a short time.

      It just seems odd that my May 1977 paper which
went to NASA and was seen by the patent office and
probably the DoD liaison officers specified all flat
surfaces and I have a video where the program
manager said they would have used some curved
surfaces but the Air Force said to use all flat surfaces.

Page 3, essentially the first page of the book, says Have Blue was
tested in August 1979.

       For RCS overflight, but both articles had crashed 
by then, see Bill Parks comments.

So the meeting to start the project begins in 1976 and the first test
is in 1979. Seems consistent to me.

      You did not write down the first flight dates,
December 1st, 1977 for article one, which Park
bailed out of in May of 1978.

       And in the summer of 1978,  article two flew
for the first time, and the pilot had to bail out in
July of 1979 when the engine had a problem.

       That means nobody could have seen Have
Blue at the remote location (area 51) before
November of 1977, and no Have Blue flew
after July 1979. 

Hopefully this post makes it to the group. Google Groups has been
screwed up lately.

      Yeah, just delete win, day after day. :-)

       I am pretty sure DARPA and military started
a competition in 1975 or 1976, but that Ben Rich
started out asking the CIA for permission to disclose
the RCS data of the D-21 drone to get into the
competition with Lockheed funding.

      I have to accept that Bill Parks flew Article One
on December 1st, 1977 (even though not at the
time Ben Rich says, it wasn't daylight yet.

      Write down the dates of first flight of both
planes and the dates they crashed, and see
that it doesn't match with all the text, I can
post page numbers tomorrow.

      And from all indications, I don't think that
the Air Force would have allowed Lockheed
to file a patent application, except when they
saw I filed December 22, 1978, they hurriedly
had Lockheed prepare the application and
the Air Force flew it to the patent office and
had two supervisory attorneys rubber stamp 
it in, and then put it in the Air Force vault in
the patent office where it stayed without
being examined until 1993.

     In  the meantime, I was forced to try to
write a more complete application, failed
again on the second attempt in 1981,
without a secrecy order, and then as soon
as I mailed in an application good enough
to be published, it was classified.
 
     But my application was still examined,
the responses sent by registered mail,
restricted delivery so only I could receive
them, and I was given allowance in the
early part of 1988 for all shapes except
flat.
     I had been told earlier that flat surfaces
were not new technology, and patent law
says that no patent can issue on art that
has been in public view for one year, and
I filed within a year, I found out 18 years 
later that Lockheed did not file within one 
year after my paper 11  from the air foil 
patent 4,066,226 was put in public view
when the patent issued in January of 1978.

     Just think, I could have filed in the summer
of 1976, I knew all the details, and I knew
it was technology that would change the
military balance of power in the world, and
I was afraid to put it all on paper.

     A lot of the published information is just
not right, partly because some of it is surely
still classified.

      I suppose a lot of the people are dead 
now, it has been 35 years since I invented
all the shapes in patent 5,488,372. and
the F-117s have been in ready storage
a few years already.
     So I will never know some of what went
on, and I think I did the right thing, just
continuing to secretly try to get the patent,
if I would have gone public it could have 
caused a lot of harm.

Ken