In article <22007-3F14E258-595@storefull-2373.public.lawson.webtv.net>, E. L.
says...

If I owned a TV station I would not give Friedman the satisfaction of
showing his ugly face on my time.  Actually, I'd like to hear that he's
dead, along with all of the other assholes that keep pushing Roswell
bullshit.

e.l.

EEl, the "good" news is that
Phil No-Klass is almost dead,
he quit writing some silly
debunking magazine, that nobody
reads, except other spOOks, of course.


As far as the roswell crashes go,
that has been proven.  So that makes
what you write, "bullshit" doesn't it!!

THE ROSWELL UNDENIABLE TRUTHS by Donald Schmitt

Did an actual UFO crash outside of Roswell, New Mexico in July of 1947? At first
the military announced to the public that they had indeed recovered a flying
disk on a remote ranch in the central region of the state. Within five hours,
they retracted the story and identified the debris displayed in Brig. General
Roger M. Ramey's office at Fort Worth, Texas, as merely a downed weather balloon
with an attached radar reflector kite. The question, however, still remains,
which of the two announcements was the truth?

Until September of 1994 the Air Force has maintained that the balloon
explanation was the correct one. But now, we have a new official story, or
rather, a new official "theory". There were all too many conflicting reports in
the old version, so, due to pressure from Congressman Steven Schiff, the Roswell
books, the motion picture, and our own unceasing use of the media to attack the
credibility of the so-called "cover-up", the Air Force admitted they "lied"
about Roswell. But all they succeeded in doing was to redesign the original
balloon story. Project Mogul, though classified at that time, was nonetheless
comprised of very conventional materials that even a child could have
recognized. And for that matter, Mogul, itself, was declassified within days
after Roswell when the Pentagon conducted a demonstration for the press at White
Sands. A photo of a Mogul array was even published in the Alamogordo paper July
10, 1947. We are now asked to believe that this is the purpose for the
high-level security oaths maintained by the patriotic members of the 509th
atomic bomb unit even up to their death beds. I can't emphasize enough, all for
Neoprene rubber, one-sided, reflective foil, wooden sticks, bailing twine, and
masking tape. And yes, the tape had hearts and flowers painted on it which
confused everyone all the way up to Ramey. That's what they are asking us to
accept all over again. Neither the witnesses or we are convinced.

Through the course of our own investigation, we have amassed a continuously
growing number of over 500 witnesses associated with the events who support the
first account, that first claim of the flying saucer recovery. And despite what
the Air Force maintains is the truth about Roswell, when the truth about the U.
S. government's involvement in other coverups continue to surface, Roswell
remains shrouded in secrecy.

And one thing also remains constant; what took place outside of Roswell in the
summer of 1947 was not caused by a weather device.

There are other constants, other truths which the Air Force refuses to address.
Let's review some of the major aspects of the now legendary UFO crash at
Roswell:

1. On Tuesday, July 8, 1947, the Roswell Army Air Field base commander Col.
William Blanchard announced the recovery of a flying saucer. The press release
itself, was orchestrated in Washington, D.C. as a pretext to the pending balloon
explanation.

2. That same day, at approximately 4:30 P.M. CST., Brig. General Roger Ramey,
the commander of the Eighth Air Force at Fort Worth, presented the press a
counter story; a Rawin target device (weather balloon with radar reflective
kite).

3. W. W. "Mac" Brazel, the ranch foreman who first discovered the debris field,
was detained by the military for seven days while cleanup operations continued
at the site. He was denied access to a phone, given an Army physical, and
subjected to rigorous questioning and intimidation while under house arrest at
the Roswell Army Air Field.

4. Extreme security measures were exercised at both the ranch, and the impact
sites. Armed guards encircled the primary locations, a second cordon was placed
around the outer perimeter, riflemen were stationed on the surrounding hills,
and MPs posted on outlying roads.

5. Special unscheduled flights arrived from Washington, D.C., with additional
units arriving from White Sands in Alamogordo and Kirtland in Albuquerque.
Unscheduled flights from Roswell transported wreckage or bodies to Fort Worth,
Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio, Andrews in Washington, D.C., and Los Alamos
National Laboratory.

6. Senator Dennis Chavez of New Mexico, then chair of the Senate Appropriations
Committee, phoned Walt Whitmore Sr., owner of KGFL Radio in Roswell, to strongly
advise him to do as instructed by the FCC in an earlier call and not broadcast a
wire recorded interview with Brazel.

7. On July 9, 1947, military officials toured news media offices in Roswell,
Albuquerque, and Santa Fe to retrieve copies of the original press release sent
out by Roswell Army Air Field that revealed the Army had recovered a flying
saucer.  The interview with Mac Brazel was also confiscated.

8. An FBI telax at 6:17 P.M. on July 8, 1947 out of the bureau office in Dallas,
Texas, first disputed General Ramey's announcement to the press that the special
flight transporting wreckage to Wright Field had been canceled, as well as the
new explanation of a balloon and hexagonal radar target.

9. Multiple firsthand military and civilian witnesses who independently
witnessed the crash have verified the date and approximate time of the event.

10. Multiple, independent firsthand military and civilian witnesses have
identified the location the impact and separate debris sites. Their testimony
coincides with each others.

11. Multiple firsthand military and civilian witnesses have given similar
descriptions regarding the size and shape of the crashed vehicle. It was shaped
more like a batwing than a flying saucer.

12. Over two dozen witnesses, both military and civilian sources, agree to the
unconventional characteristics of the debris. The material could not be cut,
burned, or even slightly damaged by conventional means.

13. Multiple firsthand military and civilian witnesses have presented testimony
concerning the five, humanoid bodies recovered at the impact site just 35 miles
north of Roswell.

14. Finally, the most shocking revelation to date: the U.S. military resorted to
extreme measures such as physical threats against civilian witnesses to insure
their silence. Children were terrorized and parents were warned that their
children would be killed if they repeated one word about the true nature of the
crash and retrieval. One confidential military source, now a civilian, has
received numerous death threats over the phone within the past three years
pertaining to his involvement at Roswell.

All of this over a MOGUL BALLOON? As long as there are firsthand witnesses who
continue to challenge the government's official new theory, the door remains
opened. I'd like to believe our efforts have had something to do with that.






------------------------------------------------

Re: Friedman On History Channel's 'Roswell' Documentary   

Group: alt.alien.visitors Date: Tue, Jul 15, 2003, 10:55pm (EDT+4) From:
Knud@nowhere.com (Knud) 
Sir Arthur C. B. E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A. <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote
in news:ZCNQa.10601$cJ5.530@www.newsranger.com: 
Friedman On History Channel's 'Roswell' Documentary To:
updates@sympatico.ca OPEN LETTER 
History Channel
235 East 45th St.
New York, NY l0017
USA 
December 21, 1999 
Subject: December 13, 1999 program Roswell: Secrets Revealed 
Dear History Channel 
As the nuclear physicist who began the civilian investigation of the
Roswell Incident back in the 1970s, who has co-authored a book "Crash at
Corona: The Definitive Story of the Roswell Incident" and numerous
papers about Roswell, and, of course, was the first to talk to many of
the key witnesses (almost all of whom you somehow missed), I naturally
viewed the subject program with great interest, especially since I was
in Roswell on December 13... I must congratulate you on providing a
Masterpiece of Misrepresentation. A splendid example of propaganda,
excellent for teaching purposes . You demonstrated the primary rules
such as selective choice of data, false reasoning, positive and negative
name calling. You also demonstrated the 4 basic rules of UFO debunkery: 
l. What the public doesn't know, we are not going to tell them 
2. Don't bother us with the facts, our minds are made up. 
3. If we can't attack the data, we will attack the people; it is much
easier. 
4. Do one's research by proclamation, rather than investigation. It is
much easier and most people won't know the difference. 
I have discussed the 2 Air Force reports in my enclosed papers "The
Roswell Incident, the USAF, and the NY Times" (28 pages) and my Review
of "The Roswell Report: Case Closed." You seem to have blindly accepted
any comment from a noisy negativist and didn't bother with the work of
professionals such as myself. Let me give some specific examples,
although I found that I can't get a copy of the show for 4-6 weeks to
give precise quotes. 
A. How do you dare to show a small heap of wreckage? In my first
conversation with Major Jesse Marcel, the Intelligence Officer for the
509th Composite Bomb Group, in 1978, he described wreckage strewn out
over an area 3/4 of a mile long. The Roswell Daily Record cover-up
article of July 9, 1947, stated the wreckage covered an area 200 yards
in diameter. Your depiction was at most a few yards across. If that is
all there had been, rancher Mack Brazel would have taken it all in his
truck to the Sheriff' soffice and there would have been no reason for
Major Marcel and Captain Cavitt to have followed him on the long rough
journey back to the Foster Ranch operated by Mack.. You have blindly
accepted a fairly recent statement by Cavitt to Colonel Weaver about him
recalling it was just a balloon covering an area only 20' square and
easily fitting in one vehicle. Apparently Cavitt wasn't told it was
supposed to be a MOGUL balloon which included 23 standard helium filled
neoprene balloons (at 20' intervals) and a whole bunch of radar
reflectors, sonobuoys, ballast tanks, etc all strung together. Some
small pile. Of course Cavitt hadn't remembered that simple fact when
asked many times by many people for the previous 15 years, even denying
that he had been on the base at the time. 
B. Dr. C.B. Moore, whom I have met, himself strongly claimed that
neoprene out in the sun for weeks would be totally degraded. Did he
forget that little detail?. A June 4 or June 14 launching could not
possibly have survived so well until early July. You also neglected to
mention that many of the July 8 newspaper articles claimed the wreckage
was found "last week". But Rancher Brazel had been in the area just a
few days earlier and could never have left that mountain of garbage
where the sheep could ingest it. Mack had of course previously found 2
balloons. The newspaper of July 9 quotes him saying he was sure what he
found wasn't any weather balloon. 
Colonel Weaver left this quote out of his recital of the article. 
C. Too bad you couldn't mention that the 509th was the most elite
military group in the world with hand picked officers and men, and high
security. They had dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
and the two tested in the Pacific in July, 1946, in Operation
Crossroads. You noted the July 9, 1947, press release and then stated
nobody knows why it was issued. Why didn't you bother to ask Walter Haut
who issued it? He still lives in Roswell and has been interviewed
hundreds of times. His story hasn't changed since I first spoke to him
more than 20 years ago. Incidentally he also had been a bombardier on 30
raids over Japan and dropped the instrument package over one of the
Crossroads tests.. He issued the press release because he was ordered to
do so by Colonel William Blanchard, Commander of the 509th and of
Roswell Army Air Field. Before suggesting he must have been incompetent,
as have some who haven't done their homework, I should add he was a
member of the West Point All Star class of 1938, became a 4 star general
by the time he was 48 and was Vice Chief of Staff of the USAF when he
died of a massive heart attack at the Pentagon in 1966. There was ,of
course, a lengthy obituary in the NY times. Doesn't sound much like he
was thought to be incompetent, does it? 
It was stated that Blanchard retracted the press release 4 hours later.
This is nonsense. Blanchard's boss, General Roger Ramey in Fort Worth,
Texas, (Blanchard was in Roswell) issued a new story after being
informed by his Chief of Staff, Colonel Thomas 
J. DuBose that Ramey's boss, General Clements McMullen, had given orders
to cover up the story. I heard that first hand from retired General
DuBose whose testimony is available on film. He was a West Pointer as
well and had 18,000 hours as a pilot and set up the USAF Search and
Rescue command. No slouch at all. 
D. Why do you show only the Roswell Daily Record? After all there were
front page headline stories in the Chicago Daily News, the Sacramento
Bee, the Los Angeles Herald Express, the Spokane Chronicle, etc all
evening papers for July 8. The West coast papers in general had done a
lot of checking before publishing detailed articles. Too bad you did
none. 
E Where did the comment come from about bodies cold to touch? 
F. The notion that Pilot Kittinger was the red haired officer is more
absurdity. After all he wasn't at the Roswell hospital until 1959. I was
the first to hear 2 independent stories about a nasty red haired officer
and a black seargeant.. Both events taking place in 1947. Has the air
force invented time travel? There is no other way to get crash test
dummies, all of whom were the height and weight of pilots, back to 1947

>from 1953 at the earliest or to get Kittinger to the Roswell hospital in 

1947. This is flat out fiction. 
G. Why did you not talk to others still alive who had first hand
involvement such as Jesse A. Marcel Jr. , a medical doctor, who handled
wreckage, has served on military aircraft accident investigative teams
and was a pilot? Or Loretta Proctor, neighbor of Mack Brazel, who
handled wreckage? or Mack Brazel's son Bill who found strange (thin
strong memory material) wreckage out in the pasture? How about the
sheriff's two daughters? All this testimony has been readily available
for many years 
H.One of the first things Major Jesse Marcel told me is that there was
nothing conventional to be found on the debris field.. No wires, no
vacuum tubes, no rivets. He was very familiar with aircraft and aircraft
wreckage and balloons and radar reflectors and rockets. The notion that
he wouldn't have recognized balloon wreckage or radar reflectors is
frankly absurd.. You are also implying that Blanchard, who had also
served in the Pacific, would have ordered the press release and the B-29
flight with the wreckage brought back from the ranch and Marcel to Fort
Worth is equally absurd, if all there was was totally conventional
stuff. You know of any materials such as the I-beam like pieces with
strange symbols that couldn't be cut, burned, or broken? Or memory
metals that were like foil but couldn't be cut and, when folded over and
over, would unfold on their own? Why couldn't the USAF find any of that
toymaker tape in the pictures taken in Ramey's office? 
I. Brazel didn't make his discovery on July 5. It was earlier. He did go
to the store-pool hall in Corona on the 5 th which is when, not having
electricity or a phone or a radio, he first heard about all the saucer
sightings and a reward and was told he ought to go to the Sherif in
Roswell which he did on the 6th NOT on the 7th as you claimed.. You made
it sound as though Sherif Wilcox looked in the phone book to find a
nearby Air Base. There was a standing arrangement that anything that
might effect the military would be reported to Roswell Army Air Field.
There was no other base in the area. 
J. I have met with Dr. Schirmer, Dr. Moore, Mr. Gildenberg. They haven't
investigated the case. They have made proclamation after proclamation
about 2nd and third hand testimony. Why use the term "conspiracy
theorist" so many times without ever justifying it? Who are these
theorists? I began the investigation and have always provided evidence
for the claims that I make which is more than can be said for your trio.
They have actually created a conspiracy theory namely that a bunch of
stupid UFO researchers and lying witnesses have created a fantastic
story for fun and profit. This, of course, ignores the fact that loads
of testimony was obtained by us serious researchers long before the
cameras started rolling. My phone bills used to run several hundred
dollars a month. 
By the way, I do know something about security having worked as a
nuclear physicist on a wide variety of highly classified advanced
nuclear and space system programs for such companies as General
Electric, General Motors, Westinghouse, TRW Systems, McDonnell Douglas,
and Aerojet General Nucleonics.. I have also been to 19 different
government document archives. 
Just how much experience with security has Dr. Schirmer had? 
K.What was this nonsense about a 1956 plane crash somehow confusing
Glenn Dennis about bodies at the base in 1947? A few years ago I went
with Glenn to the Ballard funeral home. We reviewed records with full
permission of the operator there who obviously respected Glenn. There
were a number of military plane crashes for which he handled the bodies
even after bad fires. That was his job. No possible way such a crash
could have confused him. Yet another false conspiracy theory from your
trio. 
L. At one point early on in the program the word UFO was used. Sorry. It
was not used until after 1951. Several times when showing balloons and
talking about Mogul you showed tear drop shaped polyethylene balloons.
Round standard Neoprene balloons were used for all MOGUL launches before
July ... The same kind that Mack had retrieved. And that rapidly
diisintegrate in the sun. 
In summary then, the History Channel has presented myth and propaganda
in the guise of truth. 
You have supplied misrepresentation instead of investigative journalism.
You should be ashamed and should apologize to your audience. It seems to
me you have also violated FCC rules with regard to fairness, honesty,
and accuracy in so doing. My colleagues and I would be happy to debate
your trio of amateurs any time. I would suggest that they do their
homework first. 
Cordially, 
Stanton T. Friedman

I want a crack at debunking this letter and the whole Roswell deal: Hey,
Friedman! You're fat and uh you're funny looking. And you wear your tie
to tight and... aw hell, I don't know how to do it.

Man, if I owned a TV station- I would have that debate -live