"KittyKat" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:aw8_b.578223$JQ1.373732@pd7tw1no...

"tim gueguen" <tgueguen@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:t85_b.577035$JQ1.94062@pd7tw1no...

"Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers �.S.�." <nospam@newsranger.com> wrote

in

message news:pe1_b.4018$_4.157@www.newsranger.com...

What level of proof is adequate proof, then?

SF: I talk in terms of evidence. The legal profession recognizes

certain

standards: in a civil court, "preponderance of the evidence;" in a

criminal

court, "beyond a reasonable doubt."

Which are not appropriate concepts for scientific questions.  One only

has

to consider the people convicted of child abuse in the '80s and early

'90s

on the basis of very questionable testimony to see cases where the

courts

handled extraordinary claims poorly.

I think there is, right now, quite
sufficient evidence.

Nope.

Given the physical trace cases,

None of which have proven to be the incontrovertable result of non
terrestrial craft.

the radar sightings,

Radar returns are not a particularly strong form of evidence.

but then that could also be the case for planes that are in fact tracked

by

radar. Do they then
'really' exist? If radar is that unreliable it should be scrapped.

We know aircraft exist.  But a random radar return isn't conclusive evidence
of an "unusual" object existing.  Like any sort of radio device radar is
subject to phenomina that reflect radio signals, leading to false returns.

the
photographs

None of which have been conclusively proven to be of non terrestrial
vehicles.

or for that matter they were of 'terrestial' origin. Just unknown.

and the eye-witness testimony from people all over the world,

Which is the weakest form of evidence without other corroboration.

yes. I guess the eye witness testimonies could apply to ANYTHING. Did the
WTC incident really happen?? I did not actually SEE it happen. So should I
be unconviced because others DID see it???

You seem to be missing the point.  There is lots of corroborating evidence
to eyewitness testimony that the WTC was hit and destroyed by an aircraft.
But there is no such evidence that unusual craft with exotic means of
propulsion exist and are flying around someplace.

we
have quite sufficient evidence to conclude that our planet is being

visited by

manufactured objects behaving in ways that we Earthlings cannot yet

duplicate,

and that therefore were produced someplace else.

No we don't.

but now you are stating a FACT. A fact should have absolute verificiable
proof. Who produced them? Where and why??

We don't have convincing evidence that any UFO sightings are of physical
craft with unconventional means of propulsion and performance beyond that of
conventional aircraft, let alone that any are created and flown by little
grey men from wherever.

 Now, the reason for that

little kicker about not being able to duplicate: every government in

the

world

would love to be able to duplicate UFO flying capabilities. If we

could

build

these things, we would be building them. So, if they weren't built

here,

they

were built someplace else. There's nothing exotic about that. It's not
charismatic handwaving, it's perfectly good reasoning. We have an

adequate

amount of evidence today to clearly establish that some-I emphasize

some-UFOs

are alien spacecraft. And I would take on anybody who says we don't. I

would say

it's entirely because they haven't reviewed that evidence, which is

very

different from saying there is no evidence.

Question: Give me some examples. What are some of the strongest cases

on

record

that you know of, and why do you find them so convincing?

SF: I feel the Roswell evidence makes a very strong case. We've talked

to

more

than 240
(now over 350) people about that case; people at the Roswell Army Air

Force

base; people out at the rancher's site, including Mac Brazel's

neighbors,

his

son, his daughter, and his daughter-in-law. We've talked to people who

handled

pieces of the wreckage at the base; we've talked to the people who

were

in

Texas

where it went; people who were crew members on the planes that carried

some of

the wreckage. I've talked to somebody who saw the bodies, people who

were

threatened by the government-that's being kind-to shut up about this

whole

thing. So that's an excellent case.

No its not.  Roswell has been heavily debunked.  Its too bad Stanton
Friedman, which is who this material actually comes from, is still

kicking

that cowpie down the road.

This post is of course typical of Artie.  He posts the same stuff over

and

over again, often without attributing it to its real source.

tim gueguen 101867

of course Roswell was 'debunked'. Do you seriously believe the government
would be giving
guided tours to prove otherwise that there is nothing to see? Why all the
secrecy and keep-out
mentality??

Of Roswell?  It was a Project Mogul spy balloon, which was a secret project
in 1947.  Its not now.

There is NOTHING there. Area51, Groom or Papoose Lake do not
exist. At least that is what we have all been told. So why 'protect' and
keep anyone out of someplace that is supposedly non-existant??? What are
they doing there??? Having orgies or drinking beer???Maybe its a

'government

employees' only summer resort. Maybe that is where they keep all the gold
and tax money.

They're doing various military projects that they'd rather not have people
know about.  This does not mean that they are doing anything involving alien
spacecraft.

tim gueguen 101867