Q. And A. With David Jacobs On "The Threat" 

By Sean Casteel  





Temple University professor David Jacobs, Ph.D., the author of the highly
regarded books "The UFO Controversy In America" and "Secret Life," has spent
more than 30 years researching UFOs and alien abduction. But it was only
recently that he came to feel he had solved the mystery to his own
satisfaction. The solutions he arrived at are the subject of his third book,
"The Threat: What The Aliens Really Want And How They Plan To Get It" (Simon
and Schuster, 1998). 

Finding what he believes to be the answers was not a happy event for Jacobs.
He told us recently that he now approaches the subject with an attitude of
dread and deep concern about the future of humanity and the planet we call
home. 

Casteel: What do the aliens really want? 

Jacobs: Well, you know, the ultimate question I think to ask for the UFO
phenomenon is "Just what the hell do you think they're here for?" That's the
question that I've tried to address in this book--what is this all about?
What is happening here? Why is this happening? Why are people saying that
these events are happening? So what I've done then is try to answer those
questions as best I can by using as much information as I can from eleven
years of fairly intensive research into abductions. 

And what I've been able to find is that this is a program. They're not here
just because they're examining people, or studying people, or experimenting
on people. I don't know, Sean, if you remember I gave a talk about that in
Los Angeles when I saw you. So they're not here to sort of "examine" us in
some way. They're here on a mission. They're here with a goal in mind.
They've got a program, and it's a program with a beginning, a middle and an
end. It's a program that is goal-directed and I think we're entering into
sort of the end-phase of this program. I think that we're moving towards the
end of this. 

And the program ultimately is not abducting people. Abductions, you have to
remember, are a means to an end. They're abducting people for a purpose, for
a reason. The physical act of abducting people, which is the abduction
phenomenon, really is only part of the program. So what I've done is kind of
divided it into component parts and fleshed it out a lot more. So what we
have here is an abduction program, a breeding program, which accounts for
all the reproductive activity that we see, and a hybridization program,
which is why people see hybrids all the time--as babies, as toddlers, as
adolescents, and then as adults. 

And then, finally, I think all this is leading to an integration program in
which ultimately these hybrids, who look very human, will be integrating
into this society. And who will eventually, I assume, be in control here
because they do have superior technology and superior physiological
abilities that we do not have. We would therefore be sort of second-class
citizens, I think. 

Now, I find this to be very disturbing. And the interesting thing is that I
don't really see other scenarios. I know that people feel it's positive and
it's wonderful, and all the rest of that. And they're here to help us. But
in the cases that I've investigated, very carefully, very thoroughly, for a
very long time, I have not had people discuss that. When people discuss the
future, generally speaking, they are discussing this integration program
that they're confronting, and we're all confronting. I've been involved with
UFO research for about 32 years now, since about 1965, and I have never been
downcast or depressed about the phenomenon. I have never been pessimistic
about it. I've always been filled with wonder and awe and amazement at it.
I've been enthusiastic and optimistic about it. 

But I must say that now that I've learned as much as I have learned, and I
think I've learned an awful lot, I am very, very unsettled and upset by what
I see. I don't like what I see. I wish I didn't see this. I wish I hadn't
uncovered this. I despair of it. It's thrown me into a tremendous sense of
concern about the future and unease. I just don't like it very much. I wish
I did. I don't want to be this way. I don't want to be the bearer of bad
news. I could not have ever imagined that I would come to this position.
What I'm seeing now, what I've found with the phenomenon, I could never have
imagined. 

Now, though, I am persuaded by the evidence. I think that we are looking at
a very serious business happening in front of us. As you know, the UFO and
abduction phenomena is very, very widespread. And people have seen tens of
thousands, hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of UFOs around the world
for a long time now, at least through the 20th Century, and certainly since
1947, and before that as well. It means that the amount of time and energy
put into this program is really quite enormous. This means that it has a
tremendous amount of importance to these beings. 

And there's another aspect to it also that is disconcerting. It's a secret
phenomenon. They don't want us to know what they're doing. They don't want
us to interfere. This is a consciously-arrived-at and successful secrecy
programt to prevent us from knowing. Gosh, that makes me very uneasy, Sean. 

So anyway, I've become depressed about the whole thing. 

Casteel: So the reason for all this negative feeling and depression is
because you feel that you and I and people who are natural human beings will
somehow be subject to a higher form of oppression? 

Jacobs: Of authority, right. I do think that something like is going to
happen. The way I look at is, I have one scenario which I like. All the rest
of them I don't like. The one scenario which I do like is that one day, they
will come to the abductees and say, "Our program is done now. We have
accomplished our goal. We've taken what we need. Thank you so much for your
help. Thank you so much for your cooperation. We'll be leaving now. You'll
never know we were even there. People will wonder forever whether they were
abducted or not. Now, goodbye and good night." That's my favorite scenario.
I love that scenario. But in fact, we never hear that. We always hear a
scenario about the future in which these beings say they're going to be here
with us. 

And everything is going to be wonderful. Everything is going to be great.
It's going to be just delightful. We're going to like it, they're going to
like it, everybody's going to like it. That's the future according to them,
but when I take a look at their society, and when I take a look at a future
in which they would be in control because of their superior technology and
physiological abilities, I see a very, very different society than the kind
that we live in now--a society that's far more restricted and far more
controlled. The whole concept of individual freedom in this kind of society
would be under serious question. I don't like that. I don't want it. I would
rather have human beings make their own mistakes and fix their own problems
and do things by themselves. I think we're perfectly capable of doing it. I
think we can all live together into a happy future. I think that's within
the realm of possibility. 

Casteel:So they paint a Utopian picture of what's going to happen? 

Jacobs: Well, they paint a picture of what they consider to be good for
themselves. And they live in a controlled society. They live in a society
where everybody knows his or her job. They live in a society where
everything is controlled. The ability for people to act independently is
very, very circumscribed in this kind of society that they live in. I just
don't like it. I'm filled with apprehension over this. Now the key thing
here is they are here for a reason. They are not studying or experimenting
on us, and they're keeping their activities secret from us so we won't find
out. 

Casteel: That's what you were saying at the lecture, that they were way
beyond the experimental stage. 

Jacobs: Right. In fact, that was the title of the lecture "Is this an
experiment or a program?" You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see
what's going on. This doesn't look like an experiment to me, you know. It's
been worldwide with millions of people for 50 years. Day in, day out, 24
hours a day. What kind of an experiment is that? And there are a lot of
other reasons why it's not an experiment. 

So it's disconcerting. And I never used to think this until I began to put
it together--until I began to come to these conclusions and realize I think
this is what it is. I think that in the book, basically, I've advanced
hypotheses which might very well essentially be what this UFO phenomenon is
all about. This is not the final aspect of studying this phenomenon, but I
do think that I've fleshed out what the goals and purposes are. We're not
exactly sure of all the "whys." Why they would want to do it in the first
place? What's the point? We don't really know that. But I think this is
certainly a hypothetical answer to the UFO puzzle. I think pretty much we've
answered it. 

That's what we're looking at. And therefore I think we're looking at a very
difficult future. 

Casteel:So the "how-they-plan-to-get-it" part would be through the breeding
and hybridization programs? 

Jacobs: Yeah, but how it's going to be played out, I don't really know.
There's a lot of different scenarios. There's the Disaster Scenario that
abductees keep talking about over and over again. We've had this for years
and years. I don't quite know how that's going to happen. Whether there's
going to be a disaster or not. There's a scenario where they just sort of
naturally and nicely integrate into this society and we never even know it's
happening. I guess there's things in the middle. We don't really know how
what the aliens and abductees call "The Change," is going to take place. We
don't really know that quite yet. 

Casteel: But they're given visions like the world on fire or natural
disasters, that kind of thing? 

Jacobs: Yeah, well, it's all sorts of disaster scenarios, which includes
atomic war. It includes asteroids hitting the earth. It includes floods,
plagues, famine, whatever. It's sort of a generalized disaster and you just
fill in the blanks as to what kind of disaster it will be. It's really
non-specific, although people report more atomic war or the earth cracking
in half or being destroyed by a comet or something like that more than other
things, I guess. 

I don't think the specifics are all that important, but the idea of a
disaster is the most important thing. But I don't know whether that's true
or not. We really don't know that yet because it might be a very different
scenario. But I'm certainly going to stick by my guns and say that this is
an integration program. However it's worked out, they will be integrating
into this society and that's what this is leading to. 

As I say about all my books, there's no possibility, Sean, that I have
avoided error. I'm going to be wrong somewhere, somehow, in God knows how
many things. But I think that this hypothesis that I'm presenting here is
supportable by the evidence. And that's what makes it more disturbing.
Everything I've written in this book is evidence-driven. That's why it's
such a difficult book to deal with 

Casteel: Well, it's like "Invasion of the Body Snatchers," where you end up
mouthing the words, "It's better this way. We have no pain now." 

Jacobs: You are exactly right. I've thought about that, too. And of course
one of the things I've been criticized for is because it has such a
science-fiction quality to it. And then people say, "Therefore it is
science-fiction." People have picked it up in the culture and that's why I'm
hearing this. What they do is they make the mistake by finding similarities
and saying that the similarities are in fact equalities. Which, of course,
they are not. The fact is though is that it does have what they call
"Programmatic Content." It does have content whereby we can see the inner
workings of what they're doing and what's happening. And there are parallels
in science-fiction, and certainly one of them is "Invasion of the Body
Snatchers." That is in fact one of the parallels we see. But there's a lot
of other parallels in science-fiction also. And if you look hard enough,
you're going to be able to find a bit and a piece of it here and there and
everywhere. But I don't think that this is science-fiction. 

You've got to remember that most abductees are really not much into
science-fiction. Most people I work with say they don't follow
science-fiction. They haven't seen those movies. They don't know about that
kind of stuff. It's not something where it just pervades the society. As
people try to tell me, "Well, it's just sort of everywhere." Well, it isn't
exactly like that. You've got to remember that the abduction phenomenon,
while similar to science-fiction here and there, is really very different in
almost all of its areas. It really is a different kind of situation, as you
know. 

And of course you have situations where people see other people being
abducted and people are physically missing from their normal environment.
There's a strong physical component to it that's very tough to explain. 

Casteel: One thing I thought was interesting was the way you went over the
varying degrees of hybrids. Varying percentages of human versus alien
combinations. 

Jacobs: Yeah, I tried to put forward a new concept of hybridization. One
that makes more sense and one that's more in line with the evidence as it's
presented by the abductees. 

Casteel: Like subtle degrees between the various kinds? 

Jacobs: Right. And you know, it does make sense that way. It answers a lot
of things. It makes sense primarily because abductees have been saying this.
So I was able to divide it into sort of like late stage, middle stage, and
early stage hybrids. But one of the interesting things about this
phenomenon, Sean, is that you know I talked about toddlers and what kind of
toys they played with and young children and what they play with. And I even
had some sort of "widget" that the adolescents tinkered with. Remember?
There was that one sequence where he had a box and he had to press certain
things and if he pressed them the right way there was a flash. Remember
that? 

Casteel: Yeah, like an alien Nintendo or something? 

Jacobs: Right. But in terms of toys, we basically know quite a lot about
alien toys, about kids' toys, and all that. And the hybrids and what they
do. I spent a lot of time on hybrid children. If this were psychological, I
couldn't do that. We wouldn't be able to describe certain toys that they
used that other people have described as well. We're learning so much about
this phenomenon, it's just extraordinary. And yet everything we learn points
in the direction of the integration program. 

Remember I talked about this one woman who was involved in this sort of
learning situation in which she was standing in front of a class of hybrids.
And a picture of a dog came down. 

Casteel: Right, and she was supposed to explain all the earthly things. 

Jacobs: And she was asked "What's a dog for?" And she said, "Well, you know,
it's a companion" and all that. But see, that points to integration into the
society. Everything points to it. This concern, this interest in earth
things. I don't think it's just sort of "interest." I think they're
interested in it for a reason. The interesting thing here is they're not
saying, "How do you elect a president?" "What do you do Saturday night?" and
things like that. They're not interested in politics, economics, culture,
society. That they're not concerned with. And we almost never, never get
questions about that. But if this were psychological, we would be getting
questions like that. But they're interested in physiology, they're
interested in anatomy, they're interested in the natural world, the
environment, animals, things like that. Things that are not man-made
necessarily. As if in the future, it's not going to matter what we have
built. The only thing that's going to matter is what they do. That's one way
of looking at it. 

But it's disconcerting. You want them to ask questions about Clinton, you
know, and things like that. Something where you can see they really are
learning about society, but in fact, if they integrate into this society,
there's going to be an overlay of their society. And ours isn't going to
matter a whole lot. That's my interpretation. Now I might be awfully wrong
about that, but it certainly is my interpretation of it. 

Casteel: Well, given the inevitability of it all, you just kind of want to
hang on to some kind of shred of hope that it'll be a good thing somehow. 

Jacobs: Well, the one hope I have right now is not much of a hope. But the
hope that I have right now is the fact that it's still secret. That is to
say that as long as it's still secret, they must assume that they are still
vulnerable and therefore there's a way that we can affect the program.
That's not a whole lot to hang on to, for me. But you know I despair that
the scientific community is going to realize the import of what's happening
in front of them. I think that even if they do, there's so much water under
the bridge and we're so far down the line with this that indeed it may make
no difference. Maybe 30 or 40 years ago it might have made a difference, but
I'm looking to the future where I just don't see the scientific community
getting interested in this subject. It hasn't happened in the past, and
failing some sort of sudden event, some sort of sudden revelation, some sort
of incredible thing, "Clinton Exposed As Alien Himself," or something like
that, I just don't see them becoming interested in it. They've had half a
century of the ability to have that interest and have not utilized it. 

I don't like what I'm seeing here. I've spent my entire adult life studying
this subject intensely. Year after year. I have a professional degree with a
Ph.D. in the subject and I teach the only course in the country on the
subject, the only regularly scheduled, full credit course in the country,
which I've taught for 19 years. I've written three books on the subject and
and many articles. And I've never really felt the despair I feel now that I
think that we've broken it open and we're looking at it and examining it.
And it's just not what I expected. It's not what anybody expected. I just
wish it was not that way. I just don't like it. 

However, this is one of those situations where you can despair of it--you
can feel Oh, my God, this is awful--but you have to lead your life as though
it's not happening. It's the only way you can get along. It's the way I get
along. And I've got two kids, you know. So I look at them and I look at the
book and I don't know what kind of future they're going to have. That's
true. I really don't. That wasn't just words. This is of great concern to
me. I really don't know what kind of future they're going to have. 

Casteel: Well, again, I guess the one ray of hope is the possibility that it
won't be a cruel form of oppression to live under them. 

Jacobs: Well, that certainly might be possible. I don't think it's going to
be a cruel form of oppression. I just think it's going to be very different
and not to our liking. I don't see an oppressive situation necessarily. I
don't think that we're going to be whipped like a slave in a galley on a
Viking ship or something like that. But at the same time, I do not see the
freedom of movement and action and activity that we have now. Individual
freedom and freedom of thought and all that to be the same in the future as
it is now. 

You've got to remember these beings are telepathic beings. They tap right
into your thoughts. I don't want anybody tapping into my thoughts. When I
was down in Brazil earlier I gave a paper on what it's like to live in a
telepathic society based on abductees' testimony about the society that the
aliens live in and the kind of telepathy that the abductees experience. And
Sean, you don't want that society. You want to be private. You want to keep
your thoughts private. You want to have individual expression, individual
thoughts. You want to be able to do what you want to do without anybody
knowing. And in their society, that's not necessarily true. It's a different
kind of society. 

So, is alien integration into Earth's society already a given? Will we lose
many of the freedoms we currently enjoy to the superior capabilities of the
aliens and the hybrid offspring that are also a part of us? 

The old truism "Only Time Will Tell" seems operative here, as it does with
so much of the UFO mystery. And in the words of rock singer Tom Petty, "The
Waiting Is The Hardest Part."



THE END