Reply to article by: "Kavik Kang" <Kavik_Kang@hotmail.com>
Date written: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 07:29:00 GMT
MsgID:<0H77d.60$M05.53@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>

That is a strawman and not something I ever claimed or implied. What I really
said was that no one has ever demonstrated any such evidence that any ETs have
ever visited us -- and that includes you now too. Based on what we actually do
know and what we can actually objectively observe about the world around us,
there is no evidence that there is evidence that any ETs have ever visited us.
That is not dogma, that is a blatent fact.

Yes, nothing I would qualify for evidence that ETs have visited us.  I was a
little confused by the second to last last sentance.  There is evidence,
just not conclusive evidence.  Hudreds of thousands, if not millions of
witnesses is evidence.  The 5% of unexplained cases in both US and USSR case
files is evidence.  Cases like Beligum '91 is evidence.  None of it
conclusive, but it is unreasonable to insist that there is no evidence at
all... which is exactly what many people do.

If the "evidence" is inconclusive, then it isn't evidence, it is insignificant
trivia.

In science, what a witness allegedly observed is never as important as the
observer's report of what they believed they saw. The witness may report they
saw an ET piloted flying saucer but a properly trained scientist will understand
that the witness saw a distant speck of light on the horizon and reported it as
an ET piloted flying saucer, rather than as a speck of light on the horizon.
Anything other than a report of the speck of light is imagination and the UFO
community has a very active imagination. While in a court of law the mere words
of a witness would be acceptable, in a court of science mere words are never
acceptable unless accompanied by physically corroborating evidence. That is
considered hearsay and meresay, not evidence, with the exception of the science
of psychology.

You are asking me if a barbaric species would be interested in another barbaric
species, and yes, barbaric species tend to be interested in other barbaric
speices. But you are assuming that our species will forever remain barbaric
rather than evolve as it has been and that is just not a reasonable unspoken
assumption. I am reminded in this instance of a famous quote...

  "I would like to share a revelation that I've had, during my time here. It
  came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're
  not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet, instinctively develops an
  equilibrium with it's surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You
  move to an area and you multiply and multiply, until every natural resource
  is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There
  is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know
  what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet; you
  are a plague and we are the cure" (Agent Smith, THE MATRIX, Warner Brothers,
  1999)

And you assume that only a species so advanced that they would have no
interest in other alien cultures could ever find us.

Don't assume to know what I assume. You aren't even close to what I claimed or
implied so that shoots down the rest of your argument here since it is based on
a strawman...

That's pretty
advanced.  You'd have to have been around for a very long time to have seen
and learned so much that you just had no new interest in newfound
civilizations.  You certainly would have had to have had an interest in many
along the way, to reach that level of apathy.  It would seem that only some
type of paranormal "transcendance" could make what you suggest a realistic
possibility.

Obviously, a species intelligent enough to traverse light years of space would
be a species that learned to not destroy itself and it's environment; a species
that would not want to spread to another part of the galaxy like a plague --
those are things WE humans would do if we could travel through space today, but
that doesn't imply everyone else in the universe thinks like we do.

Who knows how "cheating Einstien" might work?  If it's something like a
"wormhole" our solar system could be the very first one a species found.
And any species that goes into space is very likely to spend at least the
early era of their time there seeking out life.  Finding "someone else out
there" is very likely to be a nearly universal trait, if not the only
universal trait, of "interstellar civilization".  Even if it's not, at least
some species would be "explorers".

Is that a fact or a fantasy? If it is a fact, please provide your evidence. It
seems you are once again assuming that what we would do today if we could go
into space is what every other species in the universe will do once they can go
into space. I see no compelling reason for advanced life to act like we do
today. Most of all, I'm going by what we *actually* know rather than what
coulda, woulda, shoulda been. You can imagine all kinds of alternate scenarios
that you want but imaginary is not the same thing as reality. You need facts to
back up your stories, not imagination.

I've spent all my life looking for anything odd and while I have found many
things that were odd, none of them were in the category of being paranormal.
There is no such thing as the paranormal, it is all wishful thinking.

But there is nothing what-so-ever "paranormal" about aliens. They would be
entirely normal. Simply another real, tangible species that had developed
on another world. There isn't anything paranormal about that.

That is only your opinion but it does not reflect the judgement of the rest of
the world which has deemed UFO stories as paranormal tales.

It is not my opinion.

You mostly definitely are resorting to opinion...

   "A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by 
   positive knowledge or proof"
   (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion&r=67)

There would be nothing paranormal at all about
aliens.  They would be real, tangible creatures that simply evolved on
another world.  There is nothing paranormal about that.  It is certainly
true that anecdotal evidence of aliens visiting Earth has been lumped in
with that category, which is easy to understand considering the lack of
conclusive evidence, there would be nothing at all paranormal about real
aliens.

Unless you can scientifically explain or mechanically reproduce any alleged UFO
experience, it clearly falls under the definition for paranormal...

   "Beyond the range of normal experience or scientific explanation"
   (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=paranormal&r=67)

The Sage

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"The men that American people admire most extravagantly are
most daring liars; the men they detest the most violently are
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