In article <0mj7d.294$UP1.55@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>, 
cm@cm.not.really says...

"Your Name Here=Harvey" <you@somewhere.not.aus> pontificated...

If you're a serious thinker, then there's no choice but to take
ETs and UFOs seriously.

I have no problem with things being "unidentified", but to make the jump 

>from "unidentified" to "it must be Extraterrestrial" is unwarranted.

To say that all the evidence out there, is purely fiction - is foolish,
when there is credible evidence here and there, and everywhere - if you
are willing to look at it. Most people don't --- for their peace of mind,
not to.

Who said it was all "purely fiction"? The evidence varies widely in quality, 

>from carefully documented and honest reports to blatantly fictional tall 

tales. I have no problem with reports of seeing something unidentified, 
where the witnesses avoid wild exaggerations and don't jump to unwarranted 
conclusions.

But we also have stories of abductions through solid walls, anal probings, 
alien sex fiends, alien impotence, human/alien hybrids, ape/alien hybrids - 
and it is blatantly obvious that the storytellers have a vivid fantasy sex 
life and had completely flunked basic biology.

Debunkers/skeptics such as Philip Klass --- are about as looney as those
who'll believe every UFO story - they are at the extreme ends.

I've actually met Phillip Klass, and like me, he has no problem with the 
sober rational UFO reports. He agrees that most of the UFO's remain 
"unidentified", and are of some interest because they are unidentified. He 
finds the wild "sex abduction" stories amusing, but not to be taken 
seriously. He has also uncovered clear evidence of hoaxing and fraud in some 
cases.

You do have to make up your own mind, and believe what you believe.

But are your "beliefs" based on rational evidence or hearsay?

Upon everything - even what you are taught and is 'accepted' is not
really truth, but only for something in the intermin, to give some sense
of stability.

Shouldn't that also apply to those who insist "ET's are Proven", and "Alien 
Visitation is the Truth"?

We don't even know the history of mankind - the complete story.

True, a lot of ur history is "unknown", but it is unwarranted to leap from 
"unknown" to "The Aliens/Atlanteans/Lemurians Did It"?

I believe in commonsense alright, and simple logic or reasonable logic.
And I have to discard the skeptics view - because they'll reach at 
anything
to explain 'it' away.

You've got it backwards. It's the Tall Tale Tellers that have to "reach at 
anything" to paper over their lapses in logic, missing evidence, contrary 
evidence, and contradictions to known science.

Skeptics use the most rational and simple explanation that fits the 
evidence, or they agree that it is "unidentified". No need to "explain it 
away" if you can simply explain it.

Sure the train driver saw 'Venus' coming down the tracks, chasing the 
train,
and the police were being chased by weather balloons - because it was a
clear night, and it was that time of month/year when weather balloons
were to be released, etc etc.

Skeptics and ET Believers usually agree on the observations - we both see 
things flying around, and we both see blurry objects in photos. The 
disagreement is over the conclusions reached. Skeptics seek an ordinary, 
rational and mundane explanation. ET Believers prefer the exotic, untested, 
unverifiable, bizzare and thrilling explanation.

CM 

I have nothing against solid evidence for proving something 'unidentified'
is 'identified' - such as the case of the object being conventional but
seen from an unusual angle (aircraft) or of meteors (being of straight line
uniform motion), etc.

It is the chicken or the egg siutation, which came first?
Skeptics can have roundabout logic (and orthodox thinkers) which say -
that it can't be real because there's no proof (solid, concrete evidence)
overlooking strong cases in which there is something 'strange' indeed going
on...
Orthodox thinkers not accepting unorthodox views because it doesn't fit into
their frame of 'accepted' ideas and beliefs.

Every case has to be taken on a case by case basis. Very often the evidence
speaks for itself --- a wacky claim is wacky.
eg. the case of woman living in a rural area, sayiing a UFO landed nearby
and the occupant offered a cracker to her, in return for her providing
water for it.
It could be genuine (although it sounds very wacky) as well as being
a false claim/hoax. You would have to look at the person closely to determine
if the person is normal and not making such claims all the time...

Not everything you are told, is the truth. eg. the government will tell
you anything, some things not being true at all.
Everyone knows about politics - in which people appear to be truthful,
but will say anything to put themselves in a good light.

The public has been lied to, many times over. Whether it be religion
(which was a prominant powerbase in previous times) or government (Iraq
is fast turning into another Vietnam - in which it is being seen, that the
USA should not be there at all).
A lot of promises made by Judiasm, Christianity and Islam are false,
and the same with promises from government(s).
They do however like to maintain an air of authority and respectability
and are part of the establishment, as other establishments also like to
maintain their power and control too.

Harvey