The_Sage <a.b@c.com> wrote in message news:<iinon0djibtigroh72i0v08toheiqor4ib@4ax.com>...

Reply to article by: tlack@hotmail.com (studio)
Date written: 24 Oct 2004 12:47:53 -0700
MsgID:<4fac3168.0410241147.7b3576e1@posting.google.com>

Maybe the aliens must be idiots! Think about it: would you be willing to buy
into the story that an intellectually superior race that could travel
interstellar distances, would go through all the trouble to come to our planet
just to put on a second-rate airshow for our viewing pleasure? 

Well, I never seen a extraterestrial airshow, but from what I've
heard, they're anything but "second rate".

Let's hear what you've heard then. Just don't confuse performance with putting
on a show, since a show is a pattern they fly and the vast majority of UFO
storytales I've heard all do silly random or elementary patterns, which is not
very impressive by any sense of the word.

What do they have to do?... Emilman rolls or an inside loop?

They don't have to do anything but erratically moving around with no clear
target of interest does not sound like intelligent behavior.

And if darting off at 5,000mph in 1 second doesn't impress you either,
your not going to be impressed by anything anyway.

You are confusing aircraft performance with putting on an airshow.

Just because it doesn't sound intelligent to you, doesn't mean it's
not.

Intelligence is something one demonstrates by their actions, not by their sound,
and the criteria for demonstrating inteligence is very clear and is something
that UFOs do not demonstrate.

The *action* of interplantery space travel vehicle *sounds*
intelligent to me.
Albeit, I would have to see one first, and then you can tell me how I
what I seen wasn't what I thought I saw because I have no evidence and
you haven't enough data.
 

Albeit, I've never seen even the silly random patterns performed by
flying saucers as of yet.

How many flying saucers have you seen? It doesn't matter, you are only one
person out of thousands who have reported silly random patterns.

Besides, if there really are aliens visiting us out there, why won't they visit me? 

Maybe that's what some monkey in Africa, or dolphin in the ocean is
thinking right now about you?

So you've talked to the ETs and they told you that is why they won't visit with
me or are you making up stories again? There is no *legitimate* reason for ETs
not to visit me and you can't give us one. Don't use one make believe story to
try and support another make believe story. 

lol, I've never talked to an ET, so you'll have to ask them yourself.

I was just asking a simple question. Do you have an answer to the question or
are you just going to randomly make comments?

And if their reason is illegitimate you can point out where they're
going wrong.

If you can demonstrate what their reasons are, I will try. If you cannot
demonstrate their reason, then the proper thing to conclude is that you were
making up excuses instead of reasons for why ETs won't visit me.

I can't even tell you why the President of the U.S. wouldn't
personally visit you, other than he gains nothing by doing so. But you
would have to ask him, I don't speak for him.

That isn't even close to being true, as there are alot of reasons why the
President wouldn't want to visit me, since the President doesn't visit people at
random as ETs do, ie -- there are very specific reasons for the President to
visit someone. Another way of putting this is, what are the apparent reasons for
ETs visiting the people they have allegedly visited?

Apparently, the same reasons we would have for watching monkey's in
the wild.
Although I'm not so sure ET's ever visited any individual, despite the
reported facts.
 

I'm willing and available and unlike many of the people they've been
abducting so far, I'm not a complete idiot because I can actually think for
myself. I'm not afraid to relate with alien sentient beings, no matter what
they look like. Not only that, I'm smart enough to take the time to stop and
ask for some evidence of my abduction. Say like asking for samples of their
native food (something that won't spoil right away) or some harmless
technical artifact. 

Your monkey wants a breadstick to show the other monkey's.

I don't have a monkey. You are being delusional.

I would imagine to an ET, you're at most a monkey....if not less than
that.

And how would you know what ETs imagine? First you have to prove they are here,
then you might have a real life point but as for now, you are dreaming if you
think you can know what ETs imagine.

The only thing I can prove is that they aren't here. But *if* they
were able to travel the immense distances involved.....you can pretty
much rest assured....we're monkey's compared to them.

No one can offer any logical or factual reason why someone as advanced as the
ETs would want to visit us...and that is the subject of this thread and one that
has yet to be rationally answered.

Of course there could be logical reasons why they would want to visit
us. i.e. Research into primitive cultures, anatomy, social, teaching,
resources, trade, ect....albeit, these reasons may not be good enough
for them to exsert the energy necessary to travel here on a regular or
even semi-regular basis.
Why would that not be a rational answer?
 

Wait, that's "assuming" (see below) you understand and have the
capacity to speak "monkey language".

The language issue is irrelevant since almost all ETs suppusedly know telepathy.

You know this as a fact?

Yes I do. Why don't you read the storytales of ETs abductions and see what
you've been missing?

I never said I believe the stories to begin with. None have come from
reliable sources that I know of.

That does not change the fact that, in the context of the ETs storytales often
told, that language would not be a barrier.

And in my theory....they are.
   

Perhaps the alien astronuats aren't versed/experts in zoology just
yet?

Perhaps you still have no argument so you make things up.

In part, that's what theories are.

No they aren't. Theories are based on *known* facts, not make believe and all
you have to base any of your "theories" on is make believe.

The known facts can still be interpreted differently as basis for a
theory.

The point still being that any intepretation has to be based on *known* facts,
not unknown facts. Rationally derived interpretations have to be based on a
logical extension of what we actually know, not an extension of what we think
might be a fact.

Well, we know people are seeing things, that there are different
reasons why, and that some of these things are not explainable by you,
me or anyone else.
 

No, one virus destroying it's own environment so that eventually it will have no
place to live.

May the best plauge win,

Your attitude is the exact reason humans shouldn't be allowed to colonize the
solar system, much less the galaxy.

With your permission, can I at least live on earth?

I don't have the authority to permit or deny you permission...or are you
confessing that you are one of those kind of people with a trash the universe
attitude?

No, my point is, we couldn't trash the universe even *if* we tried.
*Green* people think we are without trying.
   

or at least co-habitate.

Viruses don't co-habitate.

But that's precisely how the Matrix ends.

I hate to tell you this but THE MATRIX wasn't based on a real life story. Please
learn to tell the difference between reality and fantasy, that way you won't
make the mistake of using one make believe story to try and defend another make
believe story.

Since I am a realist, that's precisely my point to you. The Matrix
reference was not started by me. But some sci-fi theories can be a
prelude to reality.

I am not using one make believe story to try and defend another make believe
story, so your point is pointless. I am simply using THE MATRIX as a way to
beautifully illustrate the fact that every biologist knows: "An organism that
thinks only in themes of its own survival will invariably destroy its
environment and, as we are learning from bitter experience, will thus destroy
itself"

I don't know of any organisms that don't think of their own survival
first...at least until they can procreate, exceptions would be for the
suicidal, which I don't believe the human race as a whole is, and the
facts back me up at the moment.
 

  >I think a humanity spreading throughout the galaxy would be at least a small
  >measure more of a good thing than a bad thing.

I disagree since I wouldn't want tourists ruining the solar system with their
graffiti or trash or having to put up with a 7-11 on every corner of the galaxy.
I want the solar system to be pure and untouched and pristine, the same as the
day when I first saw it.

And just how much trash had to be created in order for you to be able
see the pristine solar system?

How does my being able to see the solar system justify making trash? Your logic
sucks...as well as being unethical.

Because you were curious to see that no one had touched it so far? 

Nope...any other stupid questions?

I can think of a few....but I've always been under the assumption that
there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers sometimes, and
sometimes no answers at all.

There are many stupid questions and the characteristics of a stupid question
are...

1) The question was answered already and/or 
2) The question is completely unrelated to the topic on hand and/or
3) The question is based on a logical fallacy

I wouldn't worry about it too much, as the universe is so big and
expanding at a rate infinitely beyond our rate of 7-11 production.

I would worry more about your ignorance of science since an expanding universe
means a *thinning* universe -- which means everything is getting further apart
and fewer in number.

Imagine that, mother nature changing your universe by thinning it out.
How un-natural.

That is what expansion implies. Looks like you are high on the ignorance list as
well.

All I know is that people are part of nature that will expand also.

It is only the universe that is expanding, not people.

ex-pand, To spread out, enlargement, size or volume. 
Even an individual can expand, just look at your waist-line!
  

All I was saying was that there are no reasonable, logical, believable reasons
that anyone can give for why ETs would want to visit us, so thank you for
proving my point by not giving any reasonable, logical, believable reasons why
ETs would want to visit us. Mayber rather than reply to my original post, you
decided to reply to a reply that was a smart arse wisecrack rather then
something intelligently thought out. That way people will no longer consider you
guys (the UFO community) the laughing stock of the world.

I'm part of the UFO community???

Are you? You tell me.

I'm not. 
 

I would just say, I'm curious of some UFO reports given by reliable
sources.

The alleged reliability of the sources is irrelevant, since "...the basic data
consist of REPORTS of UFO sightings, not the EXISTENCE of what was reported.
This distinction is crucial because the fact that some people have reported such
things has been verified by many investigators. There can be no doubt that
people have made such reports. That the people in question actually saw or
experienced what they say they did, however, is open to question" (UNDERSTANDING
SCIENTIFIC REASONING, by Ronald Giere, pg 166)

I wonder how he would report a UFO?...nah, he probably wouldn't.
 

Most are mistakes or out-right frauds, but there remains a very few
that aren't explainable and are truely mysterious.

The only thing "unexplainable" implies is that there was insufficient data to
explain anything. With more data, it could be explained.

That seems to be *the problem* both sides of the debate have isn't it?
 

The Sage

=============================================================
My Home Page      :           http://members.cox.net/the.sage

"The men that American people admire most extravagantly are
most daring liars; the men they detest the most violently are
those who try to tell them the truth" -- H. L. Mencken
=============================================================