Reply to article by: reply@grouponly.com
Date written: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 09:01:14 -0500
MsgID:<jrvgq0lkhppi7d3bfl9d67r4k9kl06ssa9@4ax.com>

What WOULD be convincing evidence for you?

You ducked this even though if should be an easy answer.
Trying to answer this has been more convincing to me that
there is some genuine mystery here than any argument made
by mr. Freidman.

But I did answer it:

   "I will believe in anything that can be physically demonstrated"

No, Sage - you're wrong, UFO's do exist. Otherwise the so-called
studies you reference like Project Bluebook would not have had
anything mundane to ascribe the sightings to. Look, if you and I
see a plane fly overhead and I say to you, "See! It's Superman!"
Well, you're right, it's not evidence of Superman. But (considering
your knowledge,etc.) you may or may not be able to prove that
it's a plane. It might take a co-rroborative(sp?) 3rd witness or even
a radar report or somesuch to convince others of what you saw.
BUT,...we could demonstrate that we saw something -- Therefore
something must've existed.

Without at least some evidence you cannot even prove you actually saw something.
To date there has never been any evidence to back up even just one UFO sighting.

Granted, illusions and delusions might confound a UFO witness, but
too many potentially good witnesses have seen incredible things to
dismiss all sightings as will-o-the-wisps. So UFO's DO exist,

No matter how "good" the witness, it won't prove they saw anything. There is
only one way to prove that UFOs exist and that is to show us one -- directly or
indirectly it doesn't matter, just show us evidence that they exist outside of
the imagination's of the witnesses.

but that
is not an explanation, just a name tag. You still have to explain
them. Wasn't it R. Feynman who used to say how his Dad took him
for a walk and said, "What's that?" Richard answered, "A Robin."
Then his Dad replied, "You've given it a name, now tell me what it 
really is." (Notice something was there that they were looking at).

Psychologists have a name and an explanation for UFOs. Do an internet search for
a "popular fad".

A few other points; Expect you might be slammed for citing Blue
Book as definitive - it was usually 1 officer, 2 sgts, and a secretary
or two -- at best. OJT in the extreme,huh ? (HHOK).

You are attacking the people who compiled the report rather than attacking their
data. That is illogical.

Also, the refusal of major resources like USAF to lend support does
nothing to validate any conclusion one way or the other.

Ignoring or dismissing the data will not make it go away or nullify it. What the
AIR FORCE said fits the phenomenon: there is absolutely no physical evidence
that UFOs exist and every UFO sighting is explainable as something mundane.
Until there is some actual evidence instead of the alleged evidence or hearsay
or meresay that we have all been force fed by people trying to make a fast buck
or get their five minutes of fame, there will never be any reasonable or logical
reason to suspect that even just one UFO sighting has ever been real.

The silence
of the Intelligence community likewise. The "cute" answer would be;
"Silence implies consent."

First you have to prove they are being silent...and that remains to be proven.

Regarding the stuff about the archaeologist, I won't pick thru it.
Just say that I think you got the point that the Debunkers of this
earth would never have been so kind as his colleagues nor as willing
to hear him out. Fine show, by the way.

I disagree, because like I said before, most UFOlogists don't even try to be
scientific and that gentleman was, at the very minimum, trying to be scientific.

I do want to give thanks for effort and you are 100% dead-on about
the large numbers, yet apparent lack of more "provable" evidence.
WE both have chosen (thankfully) to avoid abductions which make
Flying Saucers look scientific practically. You might enjoy reading
the Jacques Vallee interview posted above; It won't be the proof you'd
require, but is a good read to see someone who avoids the Stanton
Freidman "Nuts and Bolts" mind-set on UFO's.

Oh yeah, I have read many variations of the UFO theme from different angles and
some of it makes for interesting reading (although much UFO literature makes for
ridiculous reading). But that only re-enforces the claim that UFOs are a popular
fad and not a real phenomenon.

I don't understand why people would want to believe in UFOs anyway. I mean what
difference in your life does it do to believe? It accomplishes nothing except
fill the pockets of charlatans. I wouldn't mind being "abducted" if it meant I
could have a co-equal relationship with them. I wouldn't want absolutely any of
their technology because I wouldn't want to see what people like Bush or Hitler
would do with it. I would just want to offer them peace and friendship so that
we may co-exist and share our experiences and help each other to survive,
thrive, and evolve.

     Have a nice weekend,

I will try. I hope you enjoyed feasting on your innocent Turkey victims.

The Sage

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My Home Page      :           http://members.cox.net/the.sage

"The men that American people admire most extravagantly are
most daring liars; the men they detest the most violently are
those who try to tell them the truth" -- H. L. Mencken
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