Ugly Bob wrote in message <8vednSvK-8Uhi3_cRVn-tw@comcast.com>...

"Dr. Flonkenstein" <admin@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.01.10.02.45.10.733599@localhost.localdomain...

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:13:43 -0800, Ugly Bob wrote:

"altheim" <altheim@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:34cpk2F494k6fU1@individual.net...

"Michael Davis" <mdavis19@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

.
altheim wrote:

"Michael Davis" <mdavis19@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

altheim wrote:

"Michael Davis" <mdavis19@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

altheim wrote:

"Michael Davis" <mdavis19@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

altheim wrote:

"Michael Davis" <mdavis19@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

altheim wrote:

"Michael Davis" <mdavis19@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

researcher wrote:

Michael Davis wrote:

altheim wrote:

[snips  where nothing further to say]

Do tell. So, where exactly has mainstream science ever embraced it,
or even found the slightest trice of evidence that any of the

alleged

psychic powers even exist at all?

Well, there's the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research
program for instance

Which has come up empty.

or the Consciousness Research facility
in the University of Nevada

Which has come up empty.

and right here in Britain we have
the Koestler Parapsychology Unit at Edinburgh.

Which has come up empty.

If I had the time
and patience, I could go on to name many dozens more in almost
every civilised country in the world.

All of which have come up empty.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you if all
you can do make bald contradictions.

 Yes, you are!

Any fool can do
that and it is obviously your style.

 No, it isn't.

All these require and receive
funding that would hardly be available if their authorities were
not convinced of the existence of an anomaly - a phenomenon
that required explanation.

You aren't really that stupid, are you? Convincing gullible people

with

money to part with some of it is the specialty of the paranormal
fraudsters. Success at bilking people out of money does not equal
success at proving any sort of anomaly really exists. Sheesh!

Got news for you, sparky. Only kooks believe in psi.

[...]

"How many times"? That depends on how much more pedantic
you want to be. I will continue to use "theory" in the common usage
sense whether you like it or not.

Translation: You intend to continue making a fool of yourself.

I don't mind trading the occasional insult but unlike you I don't
resort to insult when I've lost the argument.

  That's a rather disingenuous statement. Here's a reply to me
earlier in this thread which isn't exactly complimentary (though,
it was free of charge).

news:3474d8F480bbaU1@individual.net

You just make yourself
look a prat.

It is attitudes like this that bring all progress to a halt.

You have got to be kidding me! What planet do you live on? I don't
see
progress grinding to a halt.

Fortunately that is because there are not too many people about who
share your dogmatism.

You are wrong twice in one sentence. First off, there are a lot more
skeptics than you think. All scientists are skeptics for a start.
Secondly, I have no dogmas. It's simply that skeptics accept as true
only that which can be proven. If you see such a rational approach as
dogmatic, then you could stand a big dose of dogmatism yourself.

True sceptics are sceptical for very good, well considered reasons -
dogmatists are NOT true sceptics as they are, for some deeply
psychological reason, unable to adapt to new data or data which
happens to conflict with their own deeply ingrained beliefs. This
appears to be the case with you.

If you were not, by your own admission, here merely for kicks I
should describe you as a mental cripple, but deep down,
you know I am right else you would do a better job of countering
my arguments.

When an anomaly is discovered it needs a name purely for
reference. It doesn't have to be first proven to exist in order
to name it.

Failure to produce any examples from reality noted. You never did go
down to the library, did you? Face it, you are just making up shit
based
on your dysfunctional ideas about how you think science *ought* to
work.

You had better drop this or I might ask you to explain what a
unicorn is.

It is a creature with exactly as much hard evidence for its

existence

as
there is for the existence of psychotronic energy and psi powers. In
other words, it is a fictional fairytale thing.

You poor dumb cluck, you fell right into the trap didn't you.

So I'm the one in the trap, eh?

I didn't
have to tell you what I meant by "unicorn", you knew right away that
it is a fictitious creature and that it is just a name for a
"fairytale

thing"

yet you use the name all the time without a second thought.

Um, was there some point hidden in there? I thought that comparing
"researcher's" BS to a unicorn was very appropriate.

<sigh> The point is that you were disputing the need for a name,
e.g. Psi, for observed natural anomalies - on the grounds that psi
doesn't exist yet you readily use the name "unicorn" even though
you know it does not exist.

[...]

...as I have said elsewhere, an explanation is needed to explain

ufo

travel

Why? Nobody has yet proven UFOs are anything out of the ordinary.

You

do
know what the U in UFO stands for, right? It stands for

Unidentified.

Unidentified does not equal alien spacecraft or whatever
"researcher's"
kooky "theory" du jour may be. It just means Unidentified. BFD. You
are
engaging in the equivalent of speculating about how many angels can
dance on the head of a pin without first even bothering to prove
there
even are any angels at all. That's called fantasizing. It's not
science,
it's not speculation, it's not debate, it's just fantasizing. HTH.

It doesn't matter whether or not they can be proved.

Of course it matters.

The point is
there is a possibility that ET UFOs exist and this is the place to
discuss them. Live with it.

No. until you prove UFOs are anything out of the ordinary, there is no
possibility they are anything extraordinary. Unidentified still only
means unidentified.

Of course it does but most rational people accept that the
possibility of them being of extraterrestrial origin is only
speculation.

 It's also possible that monkeys will fly out of your butt...

An amazing theory that will shake the fundaments of contemporary science!

Of course, I have no tangible evidence of this but I don't deny the
possibility,
either.

But still it is exciting speculation and until the many questions
relating to ufos have been answered the speculation will go on.

I understand that later this year the British MoD is to release
hitherto secret files on ufos.

and
this is as good an attempt as any. It is certainly better than
theories about FTL machines or time travel.

No, it is just exactly as bad. There is no evidence that supports

any

one of these silly ideas over any of the others.

It is only
speculation, I know that and I think researcher knows that;
only you seem to think it is offered as a serious theory.

Yes, I think that's how he was offering it. That's also how you are
defending it. In reality it is the worst sort of bunkum not worthy

of

serious consideration by any rational person.

Yes I'm defending it. I'm defending it because I believe in free
speech.

But only for kooks, eh? Skeptics and debunkers aren't allowed
to respond to their nuttyness?

Hey! when did I ever say or imply that? Surely it follows that
if I am on one side I am going to get into more arguments with
the other.

I can see faults in his theory but that doesn't make the
whole concept wrong.

I disagree. I think the big, glaring, fault that there is no sane
reason
to believe UFOs are ET spacecraft totally invalidates his theory.

From a BBC program about ufos shown just yesterday on TV
several filmed examples were hugely suggestive of ET presence.

Two air force ex-pilots described their sightings, including film

 Of what?

They were drunk.

And I won't deny that possibility, either!

now, that the information is to be released that they could talk
about it.

I think these, among many other unrelated examples from other
sources, and in default of a more mudane reason, are are
perfectly sane reasons for accepting an extraterrestrial origin.

Even if that weren't the case, even minor flaws can totally sink a
theory.
Newtonian mechanics worked very well, but couldn't explain an

amazingly

tiny anomaly in the orbit of Mercury. This and other very minor flaws
ultimately sank the whole thing and prompted Einstein to reinvent
physics.

Einstein didn't re-invent physics, he just showed a better way of
understanding it.  Psi is not about changing physics - it is just a
matter of understanding it in terms of physics.

I am certainly not qualifed to debunk it.

Well that much at least is true. Your almost pathological level of
credulity certainly disqualifies you from being able to debunk much of
anything.

You don't understand irony do you. I was trying to tell you that if
I, with my better knowledge of parapsychology and psychical
research, am not qualified to debunk researcher's theory, then
you most certainly aren't.

 Can you confirm it, then?

What else would a better knowledge of "parapsychology" mean anything else
he's illiterate and lacks an elementary education.

What parapsychology is investigating is the link between the non physical
mind and the physical world. That link can be investigated most easily by
investigating the energy fields associated with the aura.
Your brain is physical, but your thoughts in your mind are not physical.
When you will your finger to move, there must be a link between your
non-physical will and your physical finger in order for that finger to move.
This link is what they believe the chi or psychotronic energy to be. Think
about it. That link must be real, otherwise you could not make your physical
body move by will power. And if this link is real, then you must be able to
detect its influence in the physical world using physics measuring
equipment. That is what the physicists involved in parapsychology have done
with the Aura energy and its link to the human mind or will. They can film
changes in the aura energy around the body which respond to a person's will
and they can measure electric and magnetic fields generated by the aura
energy of psychics trying to move objects with just mind power. This chi or
psychotronic energy is the link between the non-physical mind and the
physical body.

--
mhm 27x12
smeeter #28
Usenet Valhalla Circle #19 & #21
Bartlo's hate lits #1: <40376AD8.C83FBF5A@enter.net>
CEO Alcatroll Labs Inc.

The Way of the Kook:
http://www.insurgent.org/~jhd/kookway.htm

Diaper Boi discovers homoerotical alien talk in MID:
<d56fs0lf79jj1d819q320anl6r3tkd7shh@4ax.com>
'What's a "longitudinal inferferometer"?  It sounds like some homosexual
sex toy.'

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