In news:d69ql7$642$3@lust.ihug.co.nz,
Your Name Here=Harvey <kiwi@ing.notin.aus> typed:

Having problems replying to a post of yours below, cut and pasted this
reply here...




In article <7JIhe.6238$sE4.1481@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
maninc_mandy@hotmail.com says...

In news:d671l5$klh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz,
Your Name Here=Harvey <kiwi@ing.notin.aus> typed:

There is nothing wrong with having a healthy skepticism, in which
one wishes to be shown evidence or proof - where one asks - Please
show me?

Yes agreed :)

Phil Schneider usually says at the beginning of his lecture - Don't
just take my word for it - check it out for yourself. Meaning, he
gives incredible details in his lectures (in which his story is
incredible - an update on MJ-12 type material) - which gives people
a starting point in which they can dig up information to back up
what he says.

Phil Schneider is one of those impossible stories in UFO/MJ12
lore, in that he worked as a geologist in various black projects for
the US government and reveals all about them. The secret history of
the
USA. Sadly he is not around anymore being a casaulty of the war for
truth.

Yes I think I read a bit about Phil Schneider a bit back.

Well there certainly is some compelling evidence that some contactee
stories may be true.

Well one can only speculate I suppose, but there is a huge universe
out there, with billions of suns, and most likely billions and
billions of planets, it's possible "alien" life exists in our own
solar system (outside earth), in some form, on both Titan, Mars and
possibly elsewhere to, or has existed in the past. To conclude in
the light of such evidence we are alone in the Universe would seem
as crazy as me concluding the USA doesn't exist because I've never
been there LOL

The other thing is Anti-gravity technology is not an empty day
dream. It works and there is every possibility there are other
civilisations out there that have developed it to the extent they
can travel between the stars.

Such technology, free energy etc and individual space travel also has
profound implications for political power structures as we know
them. I mean if the individual has his or her own means of
generating energy and the ability to travel anywhere, then the power
structures as they exist at present on the Earth would be dead,
because the individual would be a total free agent, godlike and
reliance on Governments and power structures such as many of the big
multi-nationals that exist at present would be over, also National
borders would become a thing of the past, because there would be no
Nationhood, you would just have one World Government, If there was
any need of Governments at all.

I know it isn't easy to decide in the Meier case, which is more
credible - his story, or that of his critics?
There were several UFO documentaries which put Meier into the silly
Hoaxer category - and I made the mistake of believing their story,
without checking it out. Consequently I avoided checking out Meier
material for about 10 years. I recently got access to much of the
Meier material - the sheer volume of it, is startling.
Also no other contactee has provided a variety of evidence as Meir
has - 100s of UFO photographs, from B&W to colour, with some cine
footage,
audio recording, metal samples, and communications with the ETs
eg. http://www.gaiaguys.net/fermi.htm
You have only to compare Meier with eg. Betty and Barney Hill, or
Travis Walton to note how different the Meier contact is.

There has been nothing to indicate that Billy Meier has benefited
from the UFO contacts he has had. Not financially - his personality
and mindset
is not geared along 'normal' lines.
He's not the outgoing type, and doesn't seem to have ego problems,
etc.
He was suppose to have been the offical spokesperson for the
Plejarens, to give public lectures, etc. He is not a good public
speaker, and doesn't
even speak English fluently to be able to reach the widest audience
possible.

Well it's possible the Meier case is absolutely true. It's either
true or false there's nothing in between. It is difficult to judge.
Unfortunately one has to remain sceptical, because of human nature
and the fact people do lie. However...

Once you understand the Plejarens - and their outlook - you will see
that they are not interested in making offical contact. They see
governments as being corrupt (I tend to agree with them on most
things) - yet getting their message to the public is very difficult
- because of anyone (not just Billy Meier) having contact with ETs
face being labelled as being a hoaxer, potty, a liar, etc.
I tend to agree with the Plejarens, who note the plundering of
earth's resources with no regard to the safety of the environment
or the future consequences of such rampant usage of non-renewable
resources.

If the claims about anti-gravity technology and it's free energy
capabilities are true and such craft have been developed by the US
military and other World governments one can understand why they
would fear a simple technology, that would enable individuals to
generate their own power and give everyone a flying machine that can
travel thousands of miles and be made invisible to radar. Such
technology would give the individual so much power and freedom that
the World Order as we know it now where governments control the life
and freedom of the individual and you have different nations would
change overnight. You would have to have a World Government because
there is no way that nations could control their borders you'd sit
your flying saucer down wherever you pleased, law and order as we
know it would completely break down and nationhood as we know it at
present would be dead. You can therefore understand why the US
military (the defence community) would want to cover up such
technology, because it spells the death of Nationhood, the Military
defend the order as it stands and this technology would change the
World so fundamentally that the order the "Old Guard" defend and
define would be totally gone.

In some ways this would explain why the Billy Meier Aliens avoid
contact with governments, because they come from planets where there
is no such thing as Nationhood and where the individual is free,
their order is different than ours and in some ways they really do
have the power of gods, because they can go where they please in the
universe and are not under the control of an authority, they live as
free agents.

They would therefore fear our governments, because our Governments
would see them as subversive and would seek to kill them. This does
therefore explain why they would make contact through individuals.
Because whilst we may be proud of our Nationalities, this is largely
because we are quite primitive and have little conception of the
truly godlike freedom we could enjoy as individuals.

It should be noted, that the Plejarens say - that once mankind has the
capability of interplanetary space travel, mankind's belligerent
attitude would not be tolerated by other intelligent races - that
while humans
stay earthbound - they are relatively safe.
The Plejarens have an interesting view about things, and what is
considered the optimium way of living and government, etc. It is
worthwhile reading about - just go to www.figu.org and register them
in the English forums.
They believe not in living in cities - saying such close proximty
living creates more problems than it solves.

Well I think one needs some sort of social infrastructure. But there are
certainly problems with the way our societies are currently set up. Well
perhaps the main problem is the fact that it isn't set up for mutual
benefit, but rather benefits some disproportionately compared to others and
the distribution of wealth and reward isn't necessarily proportionate to the
contribution that individuals make to society. It works after a fashion, and
within the constraints of current technological development it is difficult
to see an alternative that would work.

But it is certainly far from ideal, and although "ideals" never really work,
there's certainly room for massive improvement. Because at the moment
society is little more than "free market" slavery based on abuse and
exploitation of our fellow human beings and the rape of our planet. When you
think about it in the over all scheme of things we are no more sophisticated
than a colony of maggots. But even maggots are redeemed by the fact they
play a role in the cycle of nature, whether human beings play a useful role
in the cycle of nature and the Universe is debatable.

There is a big hurdle to be overcome, in the enlightenment of mankind
to 'truth' - that it not simply UFOs that are being kept from the
public, but such things as our own history - and the true state of
religions (particularly that of Judaism, Christianity and Islam) here.
All truths are interlinked - and because we are fed some concoction
which is not the truth for so many centuries, that we wind up with a
world that is mad in extreme measures - whether it be materialism
gone mad, religion - the same, and it is not listening to what we are
programmed with, that makes more sense. We know fossile fuels are
non-renewable - is there something ready in public view, ready to
take over? No. Have world corporations recognised the
fragile ecology of this planet? No.

Well human nature (greed and selfishness) and a lack of resources seem to be
the main problems human beings face here on Earth. We are always going to
need some kind of infrastructure, but if we had "free" or far more efficient
ways of generating energy and conquered gravity to the extent that everyone
could have their own flying saucer and live where ever they wanted even on
the moon if the so desired and were able to benefit from the massive
resources that exist in the universe we would have a far nicer society and
real freedom which is lacking in the World as it stands at present.

Governments wish to stay in control - giving the image, that without
'them' the public will go crazy with anarchy and recklessness.
I think due credit should be given to ordinary people who just want
to get on with their lives - without government intervention.

We can't live without government intervention unfortunately and the more
overcrowded we become and the more limited resources become the more freedom
goes out the window. Governments become more powerful because you can' t
have freedom and democracy in a world where resources have to be shared out
and rationed. Freedom and democracy are a luxury, and the greatest threat to
democracy and freedom is poverty. And if the distribution of wealth in a
capitalist society goes beyond a certain point you can end up with a
communist revolution and the effective death of democracy. But democracy is
dieing on it's feet and will continue to die until such time that technology
gives us all better access to resources.

Sadly our stockmarkets are so fragile, so that introducing an
alternative free energy generation system would upset them easily,
and our current economies. There has to be radical changes in all
areas of our 'world' - but especially with our ideas and belief
systems - if we are to grow up at all, as a race, world, etc.

Well "free" or more effective forms of energy generation will eventually
come and the World will change, but unfortunately it is something that will
take time, but the World is certainly moving in that direction, it has to
because there is a finite future for human-kind (which ultimately spells NO
future at all) if our current reliance on fossil fuels continues and we
continue to harm the planet at the rate we are doing. This is no longer an
alarmist prediction there is no future for a society reliant on fossil fuels
and without a positive future, optimism and aspiration (IOW without a carrot
to spur us on) The fossil fuel economy will collapse a long time before the
oil actually runs out, which will cause massive political instability (e.g
you could end up with a Communist revolution in the USA or an extreme
Fascist Government) Well it's already happening. Something has to break soon
and  things have to change, I think it's inevitable things will change, the
only question is, will it be fast enough to prevent bloodshed? Probably not
bearing in mind we are already shedding blood in the quest for oil :(
-- 
Amanda