David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

"JohnN" <jnorris53@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1118241976.495422.259110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

"Niels van der Linden" <n.f.l.vanderlinden@student.utwente.nl> wrote in message news:d86ps5$hof$1@netlx020.civ.utwente.nl...

As foolish and stubborn as the god-fearing can
be, atheists are, at times, no better.  Both are resolute in their
beliefs, despite their ignorance.

No way. Atheists have logic on their side. Show us evidence and it'll be
looked into.

"Looked into"...what a twit.  Just what would that accomplish?

I'm an agnostic, btw. As for logic, it isn't relevant when you don't
have an argument. Correct me if I am wrong but has the "scientific
theory" known as "atheism" proven why we are here?  I didn't think so.
That is because it is a belief system based on ignorance -- it offers
nothing by way of explanation.

O, man.. where to start..

Take evolution for instance, it describes how life evolved. It doesn't say
why. But if you think about it, it actually negates the question, since it
says it just happens and is *not* steered.

Evolution (of man) is a theory... a pretty flaky one, at that.

Evolution is a fact.  There are a few theories of evolution that
explain the fact of evolution.

Everything evolves... nothing is the same today as it was yesterday.  Let's
not confuse the dictionary definition of the word with Charles Darwin's
attrocious concepts that we were all once amoeba and then monkies,
before suddenly popping into homosapiens.

So you are not using evolution in its biological sense.  Why then do
you say "> > > Evolution (of man) is a theory... a pretty flaky one, at
that."?

There are also
some inexplicable short-term pattern changes that beg the justification
of external influence, or "steering" as you say.

Please show us this evidence for steering and a steerer.

See the 'gap(s)' implied by my statement above.

Show me the gaps.

As to a "steerer" (?)...  you got me pal.

So there is evidence for steering in evolution, as 'proven' by your
gaps, but you can't find a steerer.  If there's no steerer, then no one
is steering and there is no evidence (gaps) for steering.

Same goes for creation of planets, stars, solar systems, galaxies.. This
scientific knowledge has brought me to my position: atheist freethinker.
When new knowledge arrives, I'm totally open to changing my position, since
that's the way I gained it in the first place.

This merely implies that you have a belief system....  Welcome to "faith".

How is an absence of belief faith?  What is faith?

Use a dictionary.  And please, don't claim now that you have a sudden "absence
of belief" in the virtually the same breath you just used to describe your belief in
evolution.  To believe in something is in fact a "faith" in that issue.  Again, see
the Webster's, and do so without being pre-disposed to typical religious terms.

Do you mean definition number three?

Main Entry: 1faith
Pronunciation: 'fAth
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths  /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin
fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to
one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the
traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something
for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction;
especially : a system of religious beliefs