Wizard Suntop wrote:

On 21 Aug 2005 00:40:54 -0700, "tomcat" <jlavine@bellsouth.net>, wrote in msg:
<1124610054.646999.201940@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:

Anything, even a handful of sawdust, has it's being in whatever is on
the other side of experience.  Whatever is on the other side of
experience is a unity since there is no space or time.  Physical
separateness makes no sense.

tomcat

Hi tomcat =)

What EXACTLY do you mean with 'there is no space or time' ?
Care to explain that in detail? :o)


--==> Wizard Suntop <==--

Color, sound, taste, smell, and touch are all united in our experience
to represent objects, objects such as baseballs and rifles.  These
objects exist in space and time, but they become worn and they rust and
decay and, finally, go away never to be seen again.

So, a new baseball or rifle is purchased to replace the one that is
gone.  To know what to look for, to know what to buy we have an 'idea'
of baseball and rifle.  This 'idea' of the object is not the object
itself.  It continues when the object we once held in our hands is
gone.

When we examine a baseball or rifle we relate it to the 'idea' we have
of such things.  It is a good baseball, for instance, if it has the
right weight and feel.  This 'idea' is not itself in our world.  The
idea does not decay or wearout, and is always there whether or not
there are any baseballs or rifles, or even whether we are still alive.

Where are these 'ideas'?  If in a person's brain then they would cease
when that person dies.  If they exist in the world then there would be
a place where they exist.  Only particular baseballs and rifles exist,
however.

In philosophy, this 'idea' is called a universal.  Another case are the
objects of geometry, perfect circles, pyramids, and cylinders, of which
various existing objects are representations.

With regard to universals, then, it makes no sense to ask how big of a
box do we need to keep them, or how long can they be kept before they
spoil.  Space and time simply do not apply to them.

To ask how big is a circle makes sense, but to ask how big is Circle,
i.e., the universal of circle, does not make sense.  The same is true
of when the circle exists.  A circle has a finite existence, but it
makes no sense to ask or debate on when the universal of circle first
existed, because it does not exist in any ordinary sense.

These ideas have being outside of our world of existing things.  They
are 'on the other side' or 'behind the curtain', or however you wish to
say it.  How big is 'red'?  How many years has 'round' existed?  How
big is 'small'?  The list is endless.

It would seem there is a realm outside of space time.



tomcat