The_Sage wrote:

Reply to article by: Stuart Grey <stuart.grey@nospam.comcast.net>
Date written: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 23:17:54 -0700
MsgID:<Te-dnX-oOpk44KLenZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@comcast.com>

Reply to article by: Stuart Grey <stuart.grey@nospam.comcast.net>
Date written: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 23:17:54 -0700
MsgID:<Te-dnX-oOpk44KLenZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@comcast.com>

Many people don't want to or are incapable of reason. To be blunt, we are not long out of the trees and the small fraction of intelligent people dragged many stupid apes out of the trees too early; people who should have remained in the trees.

 

To be blunt in return, people never dragged apes out of trees to become people.
Modern day homo sapeins did not evolve from apes, they evolved from
neanderthals.

The theory is that humans and chimps had a common ancestor. The trees in which the proto humans lived died due to climate changes, and the new enviroment requires a lot of bipedal motion.

My point being that it was the high end of the bell curve that developed tools and rational thought.

That isn't a theory. It is a fact that humans and chimpanzees had a common
ancestor. And there is no theory about development being the result of a bell
curve distribution.

Technically, everything is a theory. Those who believe in religion cling to the thin hope of future refutation that theory holds out.

More often than not, theories are refined, not refuted. Like how quantum mechanics is a refinement of Newtonian mechanics.

so the scientists also tried an appeal to politics because believers
will listen to politics.

 

How was an appeal to authority (in the philosophy context) an appeal to politics?

 

It wasn't. It was an appeal, not an appeal to authority.

If I say "believe me because I am a scientist" that is an appeal to authority, even if I do it for political reasons.

It doesn't matter what you say, it only matters what The Campaign
to Defend the Constitution said and that is not even remotely close to what they
said. It is a bold-face lie to claim they ever said that.

LOL! I googled "The Campaign to Defend the Constitution", and it came up on the utlra leftist "common dreams" website.

http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/0929-21.htm

So much for hidden agenda. All the communist organizations promote it.
(Warning! Link to communist Party USA website)
http://www.pww.org/article/articleview/7819/1/288


The communist dream website gives a link to "The Campaign to defnd the constitution" website.
http://www.defconamerica.org/

To belabor the obvious:
1) This has nothing at all to do with the constitution, which says nothing about what is to be taught in schools other than it is totally up to the states. The name "The Campaign to Defend the Constitution" is just a bunch of crap.

2) This website is obviously pure political, not science. "The Campaign to Defend the Constitution combats the urgent threat posed by the growing influence of the religious right over American democracy."

In other words, they don't give a crap about science. They are all for teaching PC bullshit in schools, they just don't like right wing bullshit to be preached. Tell their lies, or tell the truth. Do not tell the lies of the opposing side!

And lo! Not a WORD about the crap the leftist push off as "science" in the classroom. Not a word about how bogus the left's "man made global warming" is. Not a word about the left stupid "all races have identical intelligence distributions" claim that was soundly refuted in the book, "The Bell Curve".

All in all, it's a petty political battle between stupid socialist and stupid conservatives.

As me if I care. You're all going to die in the next 10 years anyway, it doesn't matter what stupid ideas with which you confuse your kids.

Even if, why would people in the right listen to people on the left, just because the people on the left say they're authorities? They didn't listen to them the FIRST time. They are not going to start doing so now.

 

That's your opinion and not everyone has the same opinion you do.

I recognize that most people are not rational. However, that is besides the point.

That does not change the fact that "people on the right will never listen to
people on the left, even if the people on the left say they're authorities" is
your personal opinion and not a fact.

The simple fact is, this whole issue is a fight between the communist and the religious people the communist want to exterminate.

But in no way, shape, or form are scientists using
their appeal to politics as an appeal to authority because it isn't a reason, it
is a plead.

 

That is irrational. They are not making an appeal to authority because it's not an appeal, it a plea that people should listen to them because they are scientist; that is, authorities.

 

That is ignorant of the facts. They are not saying "evolution is correct because
we are authorities on the topic", they are simply making a request for science
to continue to be taught in the classrooms.

They are saying ID is not science and that the ignorant masses should believe them because they are authorities. They appeal to their own authority because they don't care to spend the time trying to teach what is and what isn't science to a bunch of superstitious nitwits who hold science in contempt. I can't say I blame them. It would be a waste of time.

The letter says nothing of the kind. That is a lie. You want to see the letter?
Clearly you haven't read it so here it is:
http://www.defconamerica.org/our-issues/Defending-Science/Govs_letter_with_signaturesFINAL_LETTER.pdf

Yes, yes. First thing they say is "As scientists and clergy, ..."

Appeal to authority. They don't say what science is. You're suppose to take their word for that it isn't science. While it IS true that ID is NOT science, what they are doing is also NOT science, it's an appeal to authority. I'm sorry you're stupid on that fact, and don't know an appeal to authority when you see one. And it's too bad that you're so damned stupid that you can't see past your own biased with your "but they're right ergo their appeal to authority is not an appeal to authority", but to the kids who don't know any better it's all the same.

I wouldn't want either of these idiots, not the religious right nor the communist on the other side, teaching my kids what science is or isn't. They're both full of crap.

Now everyone can see what a liar you are. Why do you want to lie for ID? What
benefit is ID going to bring you?

If you're going to teach science, teach science. Get rid of all the polical crap from the left as well as the right.

In science, there is nothing but reason. If they are making a plea based on anything else, then they are not being scientist. In the scientific world, you use reason. Anyone who doesn't use reason doesn't matter. In science, other people's opinions don't matter. Science is for reasoned people and not for the irrational.

 

You have no clue what they are doing.

Most people can't understand the concepts, and they don't matter. Like I said, they SHOULD teach ID in school.

 

You have yet to give an intelligent reason why it should.

I just told you.
1) The smart kids will learn not to take things on authority, because the authority is being irrational.

Like I said, that isn't an intelligent *reason*, that is the logical fallacy of
ad hominem.

Sure it is. Every true scientist doesn't trust authority. As the nobel prize winner said, authority is the enemy of science. How better to teach that fact than to have a supposed authority feeding them absolute bullshit and telling them it's science?

Hell, they do it with diversity training, and they do it with their man made global warming crap. Why not teach them that lies can come from the right wing as well.

2) It doesn't matter what you try and teach the stupid ones.

That's bigotry, not reason.

LOL! So, now I'm a bigot because I said there are stupid people out there. Are you idiots going to get together and demand idiot norming, and the inclusion of idiots in the medical, scientific and engineering fields? "There are not enough idiot doctors, ergo it MUST be bigotry against the stupid!"

Tell me you're not that damned stupid.

It won't matter what the kids who can't reason think; they are never going to be rational.

 

Teaching the ID will only make it worse because ID is based on blind stupid
faith instead of reason.

People who cannot reason are not going to be better off with science. Leave them to religion; it's all they can understand.

Religion is organized superstition, hence the reason religion has never done
anything of lasting good for humankind. We'd be better off if no one practiced
or believed in any religion.

Are you really that damned ignorant of the science of anthropology to utter such ignorant bullshit?!

Religion is man's first way of knowing the universe. People couldn't explain WHY if you fucked your neighbor's wife that you died, they just knew that you got sick and died if you did. They didn't know about VD, they just said "God doesn't like that."

Same with screwing men in their asses, eating pigs, not cutting their foreskin off and so on.

These "superstititons" arose via inductive logic and correlation of events. Some were wrong, and some were right. They had no idea why, but they explained it with this God concept. Do these things and don't do these things or god will get you. It worked right down to the cultural interations that held the society together and msde it succesful.

Religion is integral to culture and without culture, you die. That's why the commies are so hell bent against religion. They want to destroy western capitalist culture.

Religion, like our biology, EVOLVED. It was subjected to natural selection. It is a part of humanity. Idiots like you would do away with it like the morons who thought that the brain did nothing but produce snot for the nose.

Jesus, perhaps if you knew something of the science of anthropology, you wouldn't be such an blithering idiot. First you don't know logic, now this.

There is a whole bunch of anthropology behind what I said that I don't expect you to understand.

There is no anthropology behind what you've said and I don't expect you to ever
demonstrate any proof behind it.

See above.

Your ignorance knows no bounds.

The kids who can reason are going to say; "Hey, the teacher is full of shit. Having the authority of being a teacher doesn't mean that you're right. Authorities will tell you any number of irrational things due to their own hidden agendas."

 

What hidden agenda is behind evolution?

Generally, there is no hidden agenda behind evolution.

Then don't pretend there is.

Go see the CPUSA and Common Dreams websites. Even your own Defcon website is specific in that it only targets right wing pseudoscience, and not the crap science of the leftist.

Evolution itself is a pure scientific theory. Science, however, can easily become a political foot ball.

Now, go back and look at what I said.

You have "authorities" telling you about God, and they have a hidden agenda.

What "hidden" agenda?

See above. THAT hidden agenda.

< snip mindless repetition and stupid crap >


I suppose that's why you call yourself "The_Sage", eh?

If you didn't tell people you were smart, they'd never know it from your blather.