tomcat wrote:

In the UFO arena we have to really keep our wits about us. We are
battling wishful thinking, crazy notions and strange strange data of
high reliability. It is highly unlikely the Nazis had any such vehicles.
The Foo fighters were as much beyond them as they were beyond the allies.

The Nazi's were into antigravity design prior to WWII.  That highly

> secret saucer-like vehicles were found after the war is now known.  The
> pictures I have seen of them, however, did not live up to the foo
> fighter stories.  They appeared crude, definitely experimental.

This is exactly what I mean. Yes I have seen the diagrams etc. And I know of the rocket powered saucer-like vehicles that were used against bombers in the last days. They were bloody fast but very dangerous (prone to explode and highly unstable in flight) to the pilot ... in fact, from memory, they couldn't be landed, the pilot had to bail out when the fuel was used up. These are nothing like saucers or foo-fighters.

But this is NOT anti-gravity. Anti gravity is as much a fantasy for us as it would have been for the Germans. Well maybe not quite so much for us, but damn close. Pity.

One of the more interesting threads in our world's history is that of
Marconi:

After the Pope ex-communicated him -- rumor has it that he took out a
'hit' on Marconi as well -- because Marconi was selling the Germans
advanced technology (ray guns) in the 1935 - 1936 time frame, Marconi
is 'suspected' of faking his death July 20, 1937 and setting up a
laboratory in a volcanic tube somewhere near southwest Brazil.

It is not common knowledge but scientists were working on "ray guns" during the '30s. Bell himself worked on one years before. His used a beam of ultra violet to generate a conducting ionisation trail which he could then send a charge of electricity through. A taser without wires, in fact I recall a recent patent for exactly this thing ... I wonder if they even knew of the work of Bell. However, ray guns although looking "cool" in movies are very inefficient and impractical for most purposes (gimme a rail gun over a laser I say)... and besides the energy requirements meant early attempts were not very good, and still aren't. But H. G. Wells made them a "must have" because of the War of the Worlds.

While Marconi's faking of his death is a 'rumor', that his personal
steamship the "Electra" set sail immediately after his 'death' and was
never heard of again is documented fact.  Rumors then surfaced in the
subsequent years that he had developed 'flying saucers'.  It is also
rumored that he purchased, using his immense fortune, electronic
devices and parts from the French Government during this period.

Rumour, rumour, rumour. Here's a fact: the physics of the time had no inkling about how to devise any technology that could manipulate gravity, and we still don't ... barring moving black holes around.

It has since come to light that the French had an experimental flying
saucer, photographed by USAF intelligence, in 1952.  Marconi may have
had his arm twisted by the French Government, or may have run out of
money and made a deal, and told the French how to build an antigravity
vehicle.  But this is, admittedly, conjecture.

Do not confuse a saucer shaped aircraft with a flying saucer. French or Canadian? You aren't talking about the hover vehicle developed in Canada? Which could only reach a height of about 1 metre. Sorry I forget its name.

It is fact, however, that the United States Congress passed a funding
bill for Project Winterhaven in 1953 to determine the feasibility of
antigravity vehicles.  The published reports at that time were
favorable except that the antigravity effect was weak and such vehicles
could not carry bomb loads.

Well I am all for continued research, and keep hoping for something serendipitous. But I would bet the "antigravity" was no such thing .. probably something like a magnetic field device maybe using paramagnetism or diamagnetism with enormous magnetic fields. Not feasible. I remember I played around with the notion myself once but after some calculations realised it was a non-starter.

In 1956 (in the U.S.) and in 1957 (in the U.K.) no more was written or
said about antigravity.  The last published reports were very
optimistic, however.  A report from the U.K. spoke of a new material
that would be more than adequate to increase the antigravity lift
constant, K.

Which report? I am extremely skeptical. I don't even consider "reports" until I can read them. I don't mind the idea of aliens or whatever in saucers, but the idea that 20th century physics could suddenly come up with antigravity I find totally farfetched.

So, draw your own conclusions.  But the 50's were a fascinating time of
technology far beyond what most, at that time, knew.  Much of this
advanced technology is, today, out in the open.  No wonder the classic
sci-fi movie "Forbidden Planet" showed U.S. Airmen flying a 'flying
saucer' into deep space.  It is enough to make you . . . ponder.

Science Fiction is good for speculation, but don't confuse it with fact.  Should I surmise most humans are aliens in disguise because "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" was made at about the same time? And yes I think Forbidden Planet is a good piece of SF. But the technology it showed was based on a lot of careful work by SF writers of the 30s and 40s, hence its technological consistency and depth.



regards,
Pete