what a bunch of goofy crap !   reading this stuff makes me 
fall down laughing  when I realize how far  this type of 
thinking misses what reality is !  how dinged out can 
some people get  mentally?   seems like I must live in a separate
parallel universe  because things, as I see them , are so different.
just shows you the differences in different people's perception.
ha hah a hahahahahaah a 

I think this is a sharp article and I repost it because
it only appeared as an answer to AUKooker "Art Deco".
C.

Mike's post by "Yankee Doodle Refugee"

On 14 Nov 2005 12:05:20 -0800, "Yankee Doodle Refugee"
<yankee_doodle_refugee@hotmail.com> wrote:

CIA Opposed Freedom, and Freedom of Discussion
by Michael Kelly

A description of the evolution of alt.politics.org.cia and the changing
tactics used by the US government to suppress discussion of the real
issues.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

About a year ago, almost all the posters on this group were "retired"
spooks [or 20-somethings paid minimum wage to work at the lowest level
of CIA or NSA and who show their lack of experience in many many ways].
What they would do is sit like spiders in their webs waiting for
innocents to come along and ask a question, such as "what are some good
books to read" on such and such an intelligence-related topic. Of
course, the newbie was then steered to some CIA-approved or CIA-written
propaganda. A favorite being The Night Watch, by David Atlee Phillips,
who was propaganda meister for the Western Hemisphere Division of CIA.
If the poster criticized CIA, that poster was flamed. If the flaming
didn't have any effect, then all the spooks would killfile the poster
in lockstep.
This strategy only works well when the "retired" spooks make up a vast
majority of the posters here. Now that more "real people" have gotten
involved in this group, it doesn't work so well because a critic is
likely to be able to interact with others who want to discuss the
issues.

hey !!! I'm a retired ASA spook and I couldn't give a rats A$# about
what  you read or what web sites you go to  or what " your " thinking
is.  you seem to give yourself more credit  related to the scheme of
things than  I'd  attribute to you , myself , or about anyone. mostly
all of us are " meaningless " in  the whole scheme of things.
the government is in WAY more control than you ( apparently )
even begin to  understand . the mere fact that you are here 
blathering on about government intervention and control 
says that you aren't one of the 17%  wealthy people " they " work for
and  because of that fact appear to be out of touch with the reality
of what happens in this country. it does now, and has ever since the
beginning , over 250 years ago. it's  just " business " as usual ,
plain and simple. nothing more complicated than that, " business " . 

The last thing The Company wants is a genuine discussion of the issues
here. What they want is a propaganda outlet. That's why anyone who
raises the real issues of CIA and Clandestine Services(as the "old
boys" like to call the covert ops department) will be set upon by
provocateurs.

See, if the "retired" spooks flame in too nasty a fashion and too
constantly, it makes them look bad. The technique used is to bring
people in from outside with no other purpose than to start flame wars
with, and otherwise harass the critic. An analogy would be the hockey
player who can't skate but is on the team to take out the talented
players on the opposing team by starting brawls.

A trademark of these types is that they never contribute anything of
substance. Their refrain is "so and so is a... blah blah." By this
technique the attempt is made to portray the critic as someone who
argues with everyone. By attacking from many sides they attempt to
portray the target as the common denominator in all the flame wars. Of
course the hope is that the provocations will substitute the flame wars
themselves as the issue, instead of the discussion of illegal and
immoral practices of The Company.

so what you are saying here is that if someone disagrees with you then
they are wrong, period eh ?  rationalize your " theories " and "
conspiracies " until you are blue in the face but  reality dictates
that  " opinions " are like elbows and a%$holes, everyone's got one.
trouble with you is that you seem to think that " yours' are superior
to people that might differ with you. ( even if I have 60 I.Q points
up on you   eh ? ) 
actually yours, mine and everyone's  are simply just that ( opinions )
, and worth nothing in the long run.... just so much blathering crap !
get over it ! 

It's just a diversionary tactic. Keep focused on what The Company
avoids discussing. Those are the real topics of importance here. All
that's needed for them to have total control of your lives is for you
to do nothing. They never stop seeking more power. Henry Kissinger
called power "the ultimate aphrodisiac" and he should know since he
stopped at nothing to increase his share of it. When Congress asked him
if it was really a nice thing to encourage the Kurds to rise up, then
abandon them when it was convenient, his response was roughly "one
should not confuse covert operations with missionary work." What a guy!
Yeah, give him another peace prize!

Provocation is an old technique The Company has used for decades. They
have experience subverting labor unions, student organizations, and
governments, remember? So it's old hat for them to divide and conquer.

The purpose is to divert you all from discussing the substantive
issues. As soon as the standard Company "dirty tricks" are brought up,
then all kinds of nitwits come out of the woodwork to start flame wars
and commence e-mail and other harassments of the critic in order to
obfuscate the issues.

The following are issues The Company would rather not confirm or deny:
CIA training of assassins and Latin American death squads. Read
anything you can on the School of the Americas (known fondly as The
School of Assassins.) You will find alumni such as the illustrious
Manuel Noriega.

huh ???,  all governments do this, not just us but Britain, Israel,
Arab States , African countries....... so whats  the big deal or
surprise here ? , of course we do this stuff,  they ALL do it, it's
the norm!  so what are you saying ? is it a moral issue (  you
foisting in your religious values here ? )  or what ? it's been this
way for 100s of years that we know about for sure, it's gonna be this
way for 100s more ! I don't even get your point here ! think
anything you think or say is gonna stop it ?   you are some piece of
work dooooooode !   

CIA rigging of elections, especially now in conjunction with the
"National Endowment for Democracy" or NED.

no news here , see above !   same as it ever was ! same as it's always
gonna be ! 

The "standard practices" of CIA, including propaganda via "friendly"
reporters in the American press, and the publishing of books via CIA
proprietary companies that pass themselves off as private commercial
enterprises. (Beware especially of former KGB officials who author
these pieces of trash as "vigorish" for being allowed to live in the
US.)
The subversion of labor, educational, cultural, student, political, and
military organizations at home and abroad.

yawn ! .............

The illegal opening and interception of U.S. citizen's mail and
electronic correspondence. In case you're tempted to tell me they are
prohibited from doing this domestically, they get around these
proscriptions by multi-lateral agreements with the intelligence
agencies of other countries. It amounts to "we'll spy on your people
and give you the take if you return the favor." So, Britain's GCHQ may
intercept your phone call instead of NSA, and everything will be
"legal," but your privacy is still violated nonetheless.

as a " spook " I did this for the government back in the 70s.  it's
been  a tradition in this country dating back before the civil war and
even before that ! it's nothing new ..... government spies are
( and always have been ) everywhere doing the governments bidding
nothing new about any of this !! can't understand why you are so
agitated by it NOW ..... cripes !   read this carefully , " there is
NO privacy " in this country and most others . true and real privacy
is a  fantasy state that doesn't exist in the " real " world.  in the
world " I "  live in, there are video cameras in every store and on
every street corner, neighbors eavesdrop on my cordless phone and
cell phone. people dumpster dive in my trash to learn things about my
business activities ( bank account numbers etc ) , the IRS looks at my
financial activities, my bank reports major  transactions to the
government,  police helicopters fly my skies at night with FLIR
cameras watching what people are up to ....... and on and on
and on ! privacy ??? what the heck are you talking about ???
get a clue ! there isn't any and isn't gonna be any , period ! nothing
you  think, say or bitch about is EVER gonna change that ! 

CIA dealing in drugs, weapons, money-laundering, and currency
speculation on the black markets. This is a handy means of raising
operating expenses for projects the Congress is not willing to fund, a
la Iran/Contra, or multiplying the funds Congress appropriates. One
example of this technique is described in the book Portrait of A Cold
Warrior by Joseph B. Smith. He worked for the Company rigging elections
in the Philippines. He was instrumental in bringing Ferdinand Marcos to
power. He dealt the operating funds sent to him by CIA on the black
market until they were multiplied by a factor of 10, then used the take
to finance CIA-backed candidates. Imelda needs a new pair of shoes!

The funding of "media magnates" and "stock market wizards."
Intelligence agencies provide insider info (their game is espionage,
remember?) to their puppets who parlay it into windfalls on the stock
market. A percentage of the take is used to promote propaganda, back
arms deals, pay bribes, etc.. An example of this is the backing of
Robert Maxwell by Mossad. In the US, Howard Hughes was deeply involved
with The Company. It's also the reason Robert Vesco will never be
extradited to the United States.
That should do for starters. Although it may be fun to discuss the high
resolution photography of spy satellites, and all the nifty toys that
government research has produced, the spy business is an old one.
Secret power doesn't require technology so much as a willingness to
betray your fellow citizens in order to curry favor with those in
control. The techniques I discuss above are some of the means they use
to do this. I think discussing these issues is more central to
preserving what freedom we have left than marveling at the latest
"sneaky" the boys in the lab have contrived.

look !!!!............. 17% of the people in this country control 87%
of the wealth ! it's not about " government " conspiracies or
covert stuff etc....... it's ALL about the money. the " they "you are
talking about are those  17% of the   population that own and control
" everything " , and that " everything " includes the government.
.   all of this is about black ink for " them ".  the fact is that
this country is based ( and always has been  from the beginning 
over 250 years ago )  on commerce and profit making.  experience has
shown that strong commerce and profit making makes this country
strong.  people like " us " are just here at the whim of those with
that 87% of the wealth. we're here to work in their factories, provide
the infrastructure , and maintain their needs at their command. it 's
just that plain and simple. it's why our borders are wide open to the
influx of aliens ( the cheap and easy labor force , replenished ) ,
it's why so many people live in abject poverty in ghettos in this
country ( Cincinnati, St. Louis, Cleveland , Pittsburgh , L.A., S.F. ,
Baltimore and all the others ! ) and why drugs are so cheap and
plentiful  (   stoned and whacked out worker bees are easier to manage
and control  )  , credit so cheap and easy, etc. , just to mention a
few . you getting  ANY of this ?    

sure us worker bees would like a larger and nicer  slice of the pie
but that would take back some of that 87% of the wealth and those
17%ers  aren't gonna let that happen.  fact is that other countries
like China and Russia have tried  spreading out the wealth to the
worker bees in   a basically even  system ( called communism ) and
everywhere it's been tried it's failed and those countries have
converted over to the  system we ( capitalistic  countries )  use in
the world.   we'd all like a bigger slice but the fact is most of us
aren't gonna get it. you can bitch, complain, theorize and everything
you do, but it's just plain and simple ain't gonna happen because you
don't have any of that 87% of the wealth. if you did, you'd be one of
them and wouldn't be here bitching.   


the government's job   is maintaining and ensuring the status quo for
those 17%ers, plain and simple. it's their job to foster an
environment where those 17% ( and some of the rest of us if we are
fortunate ) can grow ( financially ) and acquire  even  more wealth.
they are " always " gonna use every sneaky and dirty tick  ( if they
have to ) to make sure they are successful.  everyone should know that
and understand the overall scheme of things.  think you've got a
better way ? people have thought that before and convinced many others
too  ( Mao, Marx etc) but  time and experience dictates that "
everyone " is back to where " we " ( in the USA ) started !!!  you're
gonna have to DO better than they ( Mao,  Marx ) did , so good luck.
bitch and complain till you are blue in the face and it'll just be
like a fart in the wind ! thats all " your " theories and  opinions
are worth , now , and all they will ever be.  this is SO MUCH bigger
than you suspect , you ( apparently ) just plain and simply don't seem
to get it !  ( or have an unfortunate inflated idea of your
importance and influence potential  ) 

trippy .............


for me , it's FAR better to find ways to improve and enjoy the system
I exist in than sit and fume and bitch about it. positive action
rather than negative interaction is more beneficial for my mental and
financial states. but, thats just for me, maybe sitting and bitching
suits some people ( you ? ) better, dunno . what ever. in the end it's
all the same for all of us ( non 17%ers ) , all equally the same.  my
opinion , your opinion  ........  all just our tongues flapping in the
wind , pretty much meaningless  in the overall scheme of things
without a chunkof that 87% pie !  



there I said that !
k.................
  

Mike