In news:dslmr2$ehi$1@lust.ihug.co.nz,
Your Name Here=Harvey <kiwi@ing.notin.aus> typed:

In article <JzIGf.35529$494.32653@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>,
manic_mandy@hotmail.com says...

In news:dse7vn$h1i$1@lust.ihug.co.nz,
Your Name Here=Harvey <kiwi@ing.notin.aus> typed:

In past times in history - the Christians were as bad as the Muslims
or
worse with their fanatical beliefs, and have held the world back
from advancing forward - such as that of Galileo's ideas, which he
could not freely express,

I wouldn't deny that violence has been done in the name of
Chritianity, and Christianity has in some cases tried to hold back
progress by attemting to surpress ideas at varience with sriptural
teachings. Galileo is one and obvioisly a lot of Christian groups
are still ranting on about evolution.

But on the other hand it is difficult to seperate the development and
advances of Western society from the influence of Christianity and
although Christianity is not the only religion that has worked to
establish sophisticated societies. I don't think one could argue
Islam has encouraged much progress, considering Muslim societies are
entirely reliant on Western and indeed Far Eastern Technology.

I don't think it is solely the western world/countries that has
contributed towards the industrialisation and modernisation of this
world.

Actually the Industrial revolution first began in Britain with the
Introduction of steam in the late 18th Century and was mostly powered by
coal

In that every country has played it's part, and we borrow or steal
from other societies - key ideas. In mathematics, historians will
say that our numeric system came from... and that the zero from..
etc etc with key inventions too...

Well I wouldn't dispute that the Ancients may have had technologies that
were later forgotten.

And all Islamic countries have embraced western technology and
development. They had no choice, I guess - same for any country not
wanting isolation
and the benefits of modern living (better health care and a better
standard
of living). Western technology isn't entirely western though.
We know that Asia has played a significant hand in technological
advances.

There doesn't seem to be a great deal of development in the Middle East
since the introduction of Islam

and you should know full well of the religious

wars Christianity was involved in --- and how it has decimated
indigenous
cultures when it invaded new territories where Christianity was not
present before.
Acts of violence has been made, in the name of Jesus - it may not be
in our most recent history, but nonetheless it should be recognised.

Well yes I realise there was Slavery and people from the West didn't
go into these places to give away refrigerators and Chevrolets But
OTOH though disease and starvation have always existed and many of
these so called indigenous societies were little more than savages,
performing things like human sactifice and eating their own
children. Things that are now illegal in every country of the World
and it was the West that put a stop to such things.

One form of slavery has changed from one form to another.
One set of injustices, swapped for another set.
Slavery and injustices still remain.

True

Should we be concerned about the minority Muslim fundamentalists?
at all? They are not the majority of the mainstream muslims.

Well that is true. I have Muslim friends myself and they are not
like the lunatics shown in the media.

It should be noted that the events of 9-11 is something we should
know the truth of - about it. That the official story of 9-11 does
not
add up to the facts about 9-11, and that the whole series of events,
that we are told, does not add up to the official story.
We are not told the truth about this so-called pivotal event in
recent history.

Well one thing I can tell you is some Mosques in the UK were under
surveillance a long time before 9/11 and in fact this has not only
been confirmed by the BBC I used to live a street down from a Mosque
in an end of terrace house with net curtains and could observe
activities in the street without detection. I noted there were
people hanging about in cars at certain times of the day and there
were shift changes one could practically set your watch by and like
one saw the same people in the same positions on a daily basis even
on weekends. At the time I came to the conclusion these people were
plain clothes Police MI5 etc I also pointed it out to some of my
friends (in case I was going Mad) what seemed to be going on, and
yes even some of my friends at least one of whom is ex-security
forces also noticed these activities and agreed with my suspicions.
Well actually they were plain clothes police it wasn't paranoia we
weren't seeing things and this has now more or less been confirmed
by something said by the BBC. Though best not to say too much as to
the location or what this was connected with, because there are good
reasons for such covert activities, though they could be a bit more
covert, bearing in mind people are quite observant. :)

The truth can be evil - when we know exactly who are behind this and
that. They are the ones who manipulated the events all along.
I wonder if we will ever know?

I have taken a look at the conspiracy theories but when you actually
see what these extremist are like and have seen with your own eyes
the fact that some of these people have been kept under survailence
by the police for a decade or more. I do believe the terrorists
actually exist and were capable of perpetrating 9/11 and I'm not
getting my information entirely from the media or the Internet I
have made my own observations. --
Amanda

There are definitely information about the whole 9-11 official story,
that does not add up, particularly the Pentagon strike being not what
we
are told about it.
One excellent video about it, summing it up, is Barrie Zwicker's
"The Great Conspiracy - The 9-11 News Special You Never Saw" presents
a history of the US Government past conspiracies and coverups,
leading up
to 9-11, to show that the US Government does resort to lying and
misleading
the public, when it suits them.
A key note about the Twin Towers, is how the US Government would not
allow independent engineers/analysts onto the twin towers site, to
inspect the debris, and how the debris was always off limits to them.
There was never an open investigation into the whole 9-11 incident.
No independent studies were allowed.
There is a key point mentioned, that the fire caused by the jet fuel
burning was not enough to cause the collapse of the twin towers, at
the steel columns.

Terrorists do exist strangely enough. My main problem with the conspiracy
theories is there would have been no need, and secondly if it had been
staged it would have been a lot more convincing. The Pentagon is perhaps the
most odd incident the hole did look to small, that said planes are made of
aluminium and aluminium burns under intense heat. The wings would have been
completely vaporised on impact because the fuel is stored in the wings and
it would have consumed the wings in a fireball in seconds. Actually before
the Falklands war Warships were being made of Aluminium, until it was
realised that once they catch fire they simply melt and offered no defence
against Exocet missiles.
-- 
Amanda