In news:e01q2m$6oi$1@lust.ihug.co.nz,
Your Name Here=Harvey <you@somehost.somedomain.aus> typed:

In article <xWRUf.12562$Mx1.5318@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
manic_mandy@hotmail.com says...

In news:dvvmpd$7en$2@lust.ihug.co.nz,
Your Name Here=Harvey <you@somehost.somedomain.aus> typed:

One thing that does hold this world back from evolving,
is the idea(s) about God.
God is blown out of the water, by considering intelligent design;
ie. God is not of itself intelligent (ie. the God of the Jews,
Christians, Muslims, etc).
It is interesting to note, that anything put forward by aliens,
does not include God (God or gods of the Earth).
{This is not really surprising, when in effect - ETs were the basis
 upon which God or gods were based upon...}

Well IMO the conception of "God" most Judo-Christian or desert
religions have, have had throughout history and is portrayed in
scriptures such as the Bible or the Koran is far too limited. This
God is far too small to account for the entire Universe. In fact the
God of religion seems to be a kind of Idolatrous God created in the
Image of men.

However this is because the primary purpose of organised religion is
social control, which they do by setting up the idea of a vengeful
God who endorses that particular religion and no other and the only
way to do that is to set up an idolatrous limited conception God and
set out very limited ways in which people may access this God who
always hides behind a curtain. Well it's all smoke and mirrors
really.

I view religion as being 'political' - that it is all about power and
control - of the people - believers and unbelievers alike.
It is not what they say that matters, but the observable effects they
have, that do matter.
I can't say I've been to the inner sanctums of religion, to know what
they are really thinking and planning behind their fascades - but to
actually believe what they are teaching, is madness in itself, and it
is even madder if within their secret society they are aware of what
they are doing - ie. feeding their religion to the masses, so as to
have their
own comfortable life.
We all know how well established the Vatican is, and just look at the
so called recent new religions that have sprung up, and how well their
'establishment' is, look at the churches of the Mormons, and what
other religions do with their monies - the Moonies, Scientology,
Jehovah's Witnesses, whatever... ...

I will only take their ideas and literature seriously - when it is
worthy of serious thought and consideration. ie. if they have anything
sensible to offer?
If it sounds like propanganda from the very start, with it's own dogma
and rhetoric - without any actual real information - then - it doesn't
get any better the more you know about them.

True

But just because religions do that, doesn't mean there is no
Universe and there is no intelligence in it. Clearly there is a
Universe and we know there is intelligent life in the Universe
because we are part of the Universe and we consider ourselves
intelligent. If everything is a part of the Universe including
intelligence then it's clear God and the universe are one and the
same thing.

I don't really prescribe to the term 'God' and the universe being the
same thing - not really. Although I do concede that when talking about
God as a non-entity, like you are - really - it is better than the
God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims.
But really it is talking about a different God altogether - one that
is undefined, and harder to comprehend. That is fine, but we really
have to change the name 'God' then to something else, so that it does
not get confused with the other God concept, so that the two are
understood to
be radically different.

Something like RealGod (TM) maybe? LOL :)

When considering intelligent species - I don't think you can say
that only one type is superior to the others.
(Maybe you could, if you did your research over millions of
years...) And to bring that Star Trek phrase, which explains the
unexplainable --- Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
you can expect the unexpected - that life will evolve into it's
many forms, some doomed to extinction? Yet others will survive...

Well in a sense there is no such thing as Aliens, because all living
and existing beings belong to everything that exists, something
either exists or it doesn't so there is only *one* universe so there
is nothing that can be alien to this. So if one sees the Universe
and God as one and the same thing all creatures are part of God.

There may be only one universe - but we need still to understand what
you mean by one universe.
We already live in two. Broadly, that things living, are inhabited by
living spirits and when these die, the spirit is released - to go from
where it came from - that other world, the spirit world.
Billy Meier refers these to the coarse matter world and the fine
matter world - I have not access to the material available, which
clears up how are these different to the new age concepts of material
and spirit worlds. There are correlations, but there would be
differences as well.
This is of course, speaking of two dimensions - and there can be many
other dimensions as well.
Would you call these universes? Or still part of the same universe?
They are not physical, compared to ours...

Well the idea of a Universe is every that exists is part of it whether it's
known or unknown

Clearly there are different levels of intelligence in the Universe
even our own planet shows that. Since we are all God (or part of
God) one's will is the whole of the Law. But there is Good and Evil
because there is Destruction and Creation, there is black and white,
there is love and hate, there is inflicting pain and killing, and
there is giving Love. One doesn't need organised religion to define
good and evil and right from wrong. These things are a reality in
the Universe and our actions are an individual responsibility, not
the responsibility of the Church or State.

I don't presume to know all about the different types of hardware
(or life forms)
in this reality - nor know what other realities are like?
Nor do I expect anyone else to know - better.

Well there is only one reality something either exists or it
doesn't. Of course that doesn't mean people may see things in
different ways and experience a "different" reality from others, But
ultimately everything that can possibly exist belongs to one
universe. Well that's what the term "Universe means" the idea of
more than one Universe is an Oxymoron or contradiction in terms. :)
--
Amanda

I don't think you can clearly define as something being in a 'box'
and there is nothing outside.
That one must always be prepared to expand that box or see outside it,
when it is shown that the box does in fact, does not exist.
Only that your mind created it, and it was a temporary box anyway.

The more you know, the more you realise you have yet to learn....

Definitions need to be checked, so that we know we are talking about
the same thing?

I don't see the Universe as a box I see it as an open expanding definition
of everything that exists, can exist whether known or unknown.

That said however considering we can already create and define virtual
realities, and could quite feasibly, perhaps in the future, people these
realities with virtual beings that would experience these virtual worlds
through virtual senses (we only know what we know because our senses tell
us) we could in effect play God and create a kind of matrix.

Alternatively I suppose one could build a kind of anthropic universe, where
the entities in the machine define the universe as they go along, building a
kind of consensus, and the entities in the box get to be the God in their
own universe which expands as they evolve quite neat really.

There is of course the possibility that our universe is a complete illusion,
just a big idea. IOW it's simply intelligence and actually has no form or
void. Which I suppose is why I tend to see God and the Universe as one and
the same thing.

Of course one can't prove any of this, but it does make perfect sense on a
philosophical level and there is no scientific knowledge in existence and
never will be that would be capable of disproving this theistic theory
because it is totally unlimited and one can always move the goal posts well
that's the wonder of anthropic Universes :)
-- 
Amanda