Subject: Re: SETI & the Religions of Extraterrestrials
From: "mike3" <mike4ty4@yahoo.com>
Date: 12/08/2006, 09:00
Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo


Carl Sagan wrote:
SETI and the Religions of Extraterrestrials
O give ye praise Europans
by Jill Tarter

The following article is from Free Inquiry magazine, Volume 20, Number 3.

The statement that extraterrestrial intelligence exists or doesn't can
have the parallel statement that God exists or doesn't. Some people say
there's already sufficient evidence of existence for both. If you set
aside abductions and miracles, it's true that the absence of evidence
is not evidence of absence for either. However, if and when one ever
detects evidence of an extraterrestrial intelligence, it will break the
symmetry of these two statements and, in fact, that evidence will be
inconsistent with the existence of God or at least organized religions.
It's all about space and all about time. Technological civilizations
cannot be co-located-that is they can't be close to us in space and in
time-unless on the average such technological civilizations are
long-lived. I'm not talking about 100 years or 1,000 years. I'm talking
about the age of stars or galaxies. Let me illustrate that with the
Drake Equation, which in fact I hardly ever use. An equation is nothing
more than a lovely way to organize our ignorance. When you write an
equation somebody expects you to calculate an answer. It's impossible.
There is no answer to this equation except by observation and
experiment.
The Drake Equation says the number of civilizations in the Milky Way
Galaxy with whom we could currently communicate can be estimated by
taking the average rate of star formation in the Milky Way Galaxy-and
really here we mean stars similar to our own sun that live long enough
for evolution to be possible (if evolution elsewhere takes as long as
it did on this planet)-by the fraction of stars that have planets. We
now know about extra-solar planets-the number is 40, and counting. The
equipment that we have on telescopes today is best at finding only very
massive planets with very short-period orbits. Maybe ten years ago
somebody would have bet that there were none. But, we still do not have
instruments with sufficient precision to find other planets. So, we
know something about extra-solar planets, but not really a whole lot,
particularly nothing yet about the number of earthlike planets in an
average solar system.
Now we get into real speculation. What is the fraction of all earthlike
planets out there on which life begins? And of that fraction of
life-starts, how many ever develop an intelligence that we would
recognize? And of the intelligent species out there, how many of them
develop a civilization and a communicative technology that can be
sensed over the distances between the stars? And last, how long does
that civilization and that communication last? Given all we know and
all we really don't know, this equation degenerates to N is equal to or
less than L. To be completely accurate, we can say that N is much, much
less than L.
We can say the number of communicative civilizations in our galaxy
currently is less than their age in years. Now I consider that the
Milky Way Galaxy is very old and very large-10 billion years old,
100,000 light-years across. We live out here in the boondocks. It
contains 400 billion stars, about a quarter of which, 100 billion, are
similar to the sun. Let me calculate how many stars I would have to
search to find one intelligent civilization. And then, what distance
would I have to go out to search that many stars in the Milky Way
Galaxy? 
We have had communicative technology for about 100 years. If it's
typical, I have to search about four billion stars to find one other
intelligence. And that means that I would have to search almost 10,000
light-years, throughout our galaxy-10% of the distance across the
galaxy. Suppose that the right age is something like 13,000 or 15,000,
the amount of time we've had civilization so far. Then it's 1 in 30
million stars and I'll find one within 1,700 light-years. If
civilizations last a million years, then I only have to search 400,000,
and I'll find one with 430 light-years. And if civilizations last 400
million years, then 1 in a 1,000 will be enough. And they will be
within 50, 60, 70 light-years.
That 1 in 1,000 is currently where the most sensitive SETI searches are
operating. For them to succeed, for terrestrial, primitive technology
to find an extraterrestrial intelligence, means that they are going to
be very old. So near-term success implies that the technology that we
detect will be much older than our own. Ultimate success we think out
in generations. You can't necessarily draw the same conclusion.
Therefore it has to be possible to survive the kind of state we find
ourselves in today-our technological infancy-without doing ourselves
and our planet in. Such extreme longevity is totally inconsistent with
organized religion as we know it. I'll remind you that men never do
evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious
conviction. Put another way, in general, bad people do evil things;
good people do good things. But, it takes religion to make a good
person do something really bad.
Organized religion is one of our greatest threats to survival. Across
the spectrum of religions we have today, one of the most common
elements is some form of prayer. Ambrose Bierce defined "to pray" as:
"To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled on behalf of a single
petitioner confessedly unworthy." That frame of mind-a willingness to
set aside the laws of the universe in favor of some higher
authority-basically lets one off scot free. It allows individuals to
evade the consequences of their actions, including the destruction of
species and habitats.
Organized religion is an invention not only of our intellect but
possible other intellects. H.L. Mencken said: "The most common of all
follies is to believe passionately about the palpably not true. It's
the chief occupation of mankind." Steven Pinker tells us that the way
evolution shaped human intelligence and the mind was to create a system
of modules designed to figure out how the world works. When you're
starting out you haven't figured out a whole lot yet. Nonliterate
peoples routinely, therefore, invent ghosts that they bribe for good
weather. And, they grant powers to ordinary objects. They don't invent
totally different objects; they take the ordinary and make them more
powerful.
So, organized religion is an invention of the mind, as envisioned by
Steven Pinker. God is our own invention. If we're going to survive or
turn into a long-lived technological civilization, organized religion
needs to be outgrown. Religious wars traditionally have had secular
cessations. Somebody imposes a treaty, but the conflicts really never
end. There are some really horrific examples.
The only possible solution I can see to outgrowing religion as we know
it today with its sects and denominations is the development of a
universal religion with no deviations, no differentiations-absolutely
global and compelling for all. Such a religion might be able to coexist
for a long time with technological development without precipitating
the worst of human tendencies.
If that development is possible for any civilization, then I would
speculate that, if and when we ever get a message, it's going to be a
missionary appeal to try to convert us all. And, on the other hand, if
we get a message and it's secular in nature, I think that says that
they have no organized religion-that they've outgrown it. 
--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/
http://www.pointofinquiry.org/
http://www.secularhumanism.org/
http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/
http://www.boudillion.com/lam/lam.htm

I disagree. Proving that aliens exist does not disprove the existence
of God. To me, it actually confirms it -- it shows that life cannot be
by
simple accident, it shows there is something greater -- something
bigger -- than our Universe. It shows an order, built into the Universe

itself, _built_ right into the laws that make it up, that the evolution
of
life is not strictly driven by random accidents, but by something
greater. To me, that's enough proof that the Universe had to have
been created by, well, God! Although probably not what a literal
interpretation of the Bible or somesuch suggests, as that is not
consistent with observation, AND those texts do not proclaim to be
literal, either. (Genesis = a moral story, by the way, and the moral is

the important thing. It needs to bear _no resemblance_ to history.)

And, on the contrary, religion does not make people do bad things.
There are people out there who have NO religious beliefs whatsover
that have committed horrible, terrible crimes. It's what people _do_
with religion that determines this. If one reads religious texts, it is

seen that they condemn evil. The fact that "religious" people ignore
their own texts shows they have set up their own religion that is
separate from those texts, and not part of them. If the texts are
from God, this other religion is not, and therefore they aren't
following the word of God!!!!

HOWEVER, that does _not_ mean that some alien civilization will
not have religion. Religion, if followed _correctly_, actually promotes

good, and not evil. Alien civilizations might very well have religion.
If they do, it's almost certain it's being done "right".

The way to stop fighting is not to get rid of religion, but to correct
it,
to interpret and apply the _moral lessons_ of the texts _correctly_. If

that was done, religion would actually benefit things. Religion, done
right, provides personal moral and spiritual teachings, things to be
applied on a _personal_ level. Morals are for personal development,
to make people better.

So, summed up: the questions of "does alien life exist" and "does
God exist" may be connected, but not in the way you think. Proving
the existence of alien life would *add* more weight to the idea that
God exists, and not remove it.