dre <v> wrote in news:4503c723$0$13236$dbd4f001@news.wanadoo.nl:

There is enough evidence out there - but maybe we'll have to
set a time limit, so that faking can be ruled out?
So that home computers and photoshop, etc cannot be in use...

The other consideration that fuzzes the issue, is that of
'terrestrial' UFOs, which are not extraterrestrial flying objects.
I don't know what the percentage would be of UEFO vs UTFOs.

the russians think 95% are of known origine,the 
others are not clear.
but why must the rest be alien?
strange plants and animals are found every day but 
we don't call them alien.
but when it's in the sky it must be 
aliens..strange..we don't understand even all on 
earth but
when a strange thing happens we call it an alien..
the weather is such an event.
a round cloud is called a ufo by some...
a meteorite is often called a ufo,people reliable 
witnesses?
hmmm..not really.

Of course, I am not interested in the obvious mis-identified
sightings or ones which can be explained as aircraft, weather,
balloon, astronomical - those can be quickly accounted for,
in the case being examined.
To approach the label of UFO, it would have to be stranger
than the above.
 

Oh, the governments lie to us, when it suits them.
Even secrets from WWII are still being kept.
Read Nick Cook's "The Hunt for Zero Point" in which the
greater portion of the book is about WWII secrets.

secrets are needed,simple as that.
zeropoint is bullshit every serious scientist 
agrees with that.
and the saucer made by the nazi's ? oh please...
they lost the war...nuf said..

Zero Point Energy is being seriously considered, and the
Casmir effect is the example that it can be identified.
Of course Tesla worked on another principle altogether
but was in pursuit of free energy nonetheless.
Nick Cook's book is worthwhile reading - he follows
concrete and hard evidence.
 

Why would you think that an intelligent extra-terrestrial
species would automatically land on the White House lawn?

because americans regard the us as the most important?
5 million say they were abducted,not a country in 
the world claims this is done by aliens.
other cultures have roughly the same experiences 
but explain it in their own culture 
beliefs,witches,sleeping disorders,trolls,etc.
the cult in the us started with roswell and 
hollywood,well,the otherway round i guess.
when hollywood made the scifi movies the witness 
"accounts" sored....strange...
adhoc reasoning explained this as if americans 
before  never looked up...
eyes on the ground ...

Only dumb aliens would land on the White House lawn,
with the 'take me to your leader' mentality.

Given that the US is hardly a world leader.

the people think so ,that's enough.
ever seen a hollywood movie with aliens that did 
NOT attack,landed,or watched the us?
and every time the us is our rescuer...
no wonder americans think they must be something 
special.
look at all the tv series about scifi...do you 
really think this doesn't influence people?
strangly enough every alien look the same as 
people do,2 arms 2 legs,a head,2 eyes,2 pointy 
ears!, why?
it's EASY for the makers of the props...and so we 
see the same aliens in the witness 
accounts..transport rays like startrek,high tech 
implants wich can't be found..

Ummm, hollywood movies are written by hollywood writers,
who are funded by hollywood money, so that's why we 
get so much crap movies, and even worse SF movies, etc.
 

They are certainly not on the side of truth and justice,
etc.
There was the UFO flap over Washington in the 50s' that is
the closest to what you requested.

If you really think about it? Knowledge is a foregoing work in 

progress.

Therefore to authoritively say - 'Oh, there is no life elsewhere
in the universe, etc etc and Earth is the only living planet with
intelligent life, etc etc' is the most pig-headed statement that
ever was. 

who is saying that?

The skeptics - who can't imagine the future.
What future possibilities lie just around the corner for us.

That no one else can master the art of intergalactic

space travel, etc etc because we haven't done that yet, is about
as dumb a claim and mindset.
It would be fairer to say - that life must exist elsewhere in the
universe, especially when we now know that life does exist underwater
at great depths, near underwater volcanoes vents.
That where a suitable environment exists - life is likely to form 

there.

What happens here, happens elsewhere.
It's a simple observation.

but traveling with the speed of light is a totally 
different matter...
ofcourse life excists in the universe 100% sure.
if only on 1 planet.
but coming here is  virtually impossible.

You obviously haven't read any of the Billy Meier / Plejaren
material and the beamships which go into hyperspace.
If you can imagine something is possible, I think it is just
a case of putting a datestamp to it, when it will be?
With unlimited time, anything then becomes possible.
 

I don't say believe in any nilly willy story about aliens and UFOs,
etc, but just examine the various cases to see there must be
something to them - and it is because secrets are kept, and
authorities, establishments and governments etc withhold their
information from the public - that the public is forced to believe
UFOs don't exist, etc etc. 

if they have such secrets they will use it to get 
an advantage,they used the atombomb,stealth 
technology,they are working on fusion wich isn't 
working yet but such a device must be in the alien 
craft they have "found" in roswell...and other places.
adhoc thinking explains this,the craft is damaged 
and the morons can't get it to work...

Let's say that a military or civilian aircraft of today, gets
caught in a timewarp and is transported back to the 1880s,
and crashes there. What are the chances of people back in that
time, able to repair and fly it?
 

ad-hoc thinking,believers are very good at 
this,they don't show the aliens so they are hiding 
and lying..
the fact that clinton jumped out of his skin by 
claiming life was found on mars tells me a 
completely different story,
it was only a very small dead worm but hey...great pr!
imagine the pr and power they can have by using 
all that knowledge,but that is explained away by 
the belief that the oil industry don't want to use 
the technology because they would loose trillions 
of dollars...adhoc thinking again...
that they can use it and make much more profit is 
regarded as stupid...stupid debunkers eh?

The term of the thinking can be left up to the individual.
Some one else may not view it as ad-hoc thinking, but
just using simple deductive reasoning, in other words
plain common sense.
Governments, instituations, authorities, etc are run by men,
who are human, therefore they have their own motives and
reasoning. They are still selfish individuals who look out
for themselves first and foremost. Power corrupts absolutely,
and absolute power corrupts.
This is all too evident in the history of religion and of the
history of the world, especially where leaders are concerned.
They have an ego, don't they? An especially big one.
A person in a position of power, wishes to maintain their
position, and to not let go of their power. 

and would use alien technology to keep it ,right?

Just witness

the recent Tony Blair news - of course, he doesn't want to go.
Witness the recent Australian Prime Minister scandal - in which
he supposedly said to his deputy years ago, I'll step down after
a certain number of terms, and then you can take over...

but he WILL leave...you are saying politicians 
NEVER want to leave power.
or he has no alien technology or he is concerned 
for the party.

I'm saying that politicians are petty minded, concerned about
themself first and foremost. They only give the appearance that
they care about other issues, and the country, etc etc.
This is the same for religious leaders too. It's all show with
no substance.
 

life elsewhere does not mean they are visiting us...
and yes they MUST excist somewhere in the 
universe,intelligent or not.

Ummm, they COULD have visited us, and maybe they DID.
As a lot of history says, ETs have visited us, bringing to us
the knowledge of civilisation.

proof of that?
alien computer perhaps?

Civilisation itself.
Or rather a civilisation that starts out of nowhere that is
fully developed and advanced, with no history to show a
gradual increase in technology.
Also the sudden departure of a civilisation with no known
cause of departure/exit.
 

But of course, the skeptic doesn't believe in Gods of the Ancient
past, being ETs. Heaven too betseys that would be ad-hoc thinking
wouldn't it?

people believe also in miracles...i rest my case..
strangly enough miracles don't occur as many as 
in biblical times..

What is misunderstood, or not understood can be seen as a miracle.
ie. The use of technology can be seen as a miracle to those who don't
have it, or understand it, which is what is probably described in the
Bible. eg. The Book of Ezekiel is a UFO sighting being described, and
not a vision of God. Or rather God was an ET and travelled in a UFO.
The colourful descriptive language of those times reference it to God,
which is a ET.

The irony is, a lot of science fiction and space fantasy,
could well be true and part of our history - and our history
(taught in schools, etc etc) just a load of fiction, made up
of incomplete facts.

correct,COULD but very very small.
seti has not found anything yet,radio waves are 
the simplest way to communicate between 2 points 
far away,even by aliens who are devoloping to 
higher technology,the fact that seti found nothing 
would say no intelligent aliens excist in the near 
universe.
at least closer than 20 light years .
but i read a post from someone who is disputing 
this and found seti suspicious...because of the 
connection with nasa.
not liking the results? make a conspircy about 
it,the easy way.

No comment.
 

Information is power, that is why the secret has been kept and
maintained. To limit the imagination of the general public, etc 

etc.

An attempt to control us.

in order to control us they must use it...a lot of 
conspiricy theories fly around,
mindcontroll is one favourit to explain all,if 
this is true the internet would not excist.
anti american sites are exploding the same for 
sites about aliens,9/11...
look at how the us is doing these days...hiding 
something?
they try to but doing a very poor job.

We are being manipulated all the time.
The Internet/computer technology can just as well be used
for tracking people and monitoring them.
Technology can be used for manipulating people even more.
 

A lot of weird stuff can be part of our history - like what
Col Corso claims - that ET technology was back-engineered to
produce our breakthroughs in science and technology.

why can't we hover a plane above the ground then?
is this all the aliens have?
crummy petrol engines?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_J._Corso
He states that these actions led to the development of fiber optics, 
lasers, integrated circuit chips and more.
 

The same could be done with ancient mysteries of our ancient
past too --- to look at out of place artefacts, and see how
to reproduce it?

Harvey

finding the tools is a better way.
but none is found so....


but i like the idea of visiting us and meeting 
them,learning from them and seeing their culture.
it would change mankind ,i like it also to see the 
reaction of religious fanatics.
but the change of it?
zero to none.

There is a prophecy that mankind will have a linkup with a ET
civilisation - that it will happen.
Also, it is said that some ETs did take Christianity back with
them to their homeworld, that it caused such chaos there, it
was outlawed. That, I find believable because of such a mess
it has caused here.

Harvey