Cosmic Top Secret
An Interview With Robert O. Dean

A new beginning may not necessarily be shared by all without a re-
evaluation of the history we have been taught and an honest concern
for the history we have been denied. The following interview will shed
some needed light on our post-WWII/Cold War history.

Command Sergeant Major Robert O. Dean retired in 1976 after 27 years
of highly decorated combat service, having served as an Infantry Unit
Commander in Korea and Vietnam and in Intelligence Field Operations in
Laos, Cambodia and North Vietnam. Prior to this Dean was a NATO
intelligence analyst serving Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe
(SHAPE), and he ranked Master Sergeant to the Operations Division/
inner command staff; working with the Supreme Allied Command Europe
(SACEUR).

At Indiana University, Dean majored in ancient history, philosophy and
psychology. He extensively studied archaeology and theology.

Through a Federal Emergency Management career development course, Dean
graduated with a Masters Degree equivalent in Emergency Management. He
served 14 years with FEMA, retiring as an Emergency Services Manager
with Pima County Sheriff's Department, Arizona.

In June 1964, NATO selectively distributed a study entitled "An
Assessment: An Evaluation of a Possible Military Threat to Allied
Forces Europe. " Having been commissioned to serve with the NATO/SHAPE
inner command staff; Dean gained CTS (Cosmic Top Secret) security
clearance which provided access to this highly unusual and restricted
internal document.   Dean claims that the "Assessment" evaluated
possible security threats posed by UFOs. At issue were numerous UFO
formations above Eastern and Western Europe representing a potential
triggering of WWIII through mistaken identity!  Dean states that this
was a "military study...with a specific purpose, for a specific time, to
reach a specific goal."  If the study still exists, it stands as an
historical footnote totally unprecedented in the history we've been
taught. Revising world history to include any such omissions would be
a prerequisite for any significant development by humanity in the 21st
century.

R. KOPPANG: Your June 1992 lecture in Los Angeles presented an
invaluable setting for you to violate permanent national security
oaths by telling your NATO "Assessment" story. You publicly noted a
Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) representative present in the
audience! Do you recall, had he attended previous lectures?

R. DEAN: Yes and yes! He had attended previous lectures. I recognized
him because, when I was in the sheriff's department as an emergency
services plans and operations officer.  We worked very closely with
all law enforcement and government operations in the state, primarily
because of the border problem, because of the drug problem, because of
the illegal alien problem. And there is a small contingent of DIA
personnel at Fort Wauchuca. That is the headquarters not only for Army
Electronic Proving Grounds; it is also, now, the headquarters for Army
Intelligence. I had worked closely with those guys. We had been in
conferences together, discussing this "alien" problem across the
borders, the fact that our border is a sieve. The fact is not only are
we getting drugs coming over by the ton, but weapons are going back
and forth all the time!

That used to worry us, particularly those of us involved in the
Doomsday Project. You're probably familiar with Continuity of
Government Program (COG). That was a FEMA program! We were concerned
about the "40 pound suitcases" that had been discovered, that could be
brought across the border carrying a one megaton won nuclear weapon.
We knew drugs came over by the ton, illegal aliens came over by the
busload, and money and guns were going back and forth We were troubled
for a long time. FEMA was troubled by the reality of that "40-pound
suitcase" which we developed. Let's face it, we're guilty of it! We're
the ones who put the technology together.

That "suitcase" can be carried by anybody, then put in a locker at the
airport or bus station. A timer can be set the individual who placed
it there can get on a plane and fly away. Six to eight hours later-BOOM
-the city disappears. That is the ultimate in terrorism!

RK: I recall Bo Gritz revealing that he had training with that very
type of "suitcase."

RD: You know how we developed that system? "We" developed a land-mine
program in Europe, during Cold War years, where we pre-placed land
mines all over Europe with nuke warheads inside that could be
detonated from a distance in the event of a massive Soviet invasion of
Western Europe.  It was one of the defense plans NATO put together.
The Germans were not too keen about it. But we didn't ask them
originally. The French were not too happy-it was one of the reasons de
Gaulle pulled himself out of SHAPE. He withdrew from the military
alliance in 1967. We had these pre-planned pre-set land mines. They
ended up weighing only about 40 pounds. Placed in the ground, you had
a one megaton warhead, which is a pretty terrible warhead, ten times
bigger than Hiroshima/Nagasaki. The idea was that if the Soviets had
ever pulled off their mass invasion (their tanks numbered in the
thousands), they literally might have pushed us all the way to the
channel.

The point was to have a NATO option to detonate those land mines all
across Europe. You talk about "mutually assured destruction." My god,
the fallout from that would have killed our troops as well as Soviet
troops-it was a stupid idea! But, we developed the technology, and now
that's out there, haunting us, because that warhead can be carried in
a 40 pound.3 suitcase by any crazy from Iraq, Iran, Japan or Korea.

I've wandered a bit. Yes, I recognized these guys. I've seen them.
They were here in 1991, when I spoke at Wendell' Stevens' conference.
I looked out there, and I saw a couple of the guys from DIA sitting in
the audience, guys I had been in (work) conferences with on the drug/
weapons/explosives problem. So, I made a little joke about them. I
said, "Come and see me afterward, and we'll have a beer."

The point is, the DIA is one of the agencies given the task to monitor
people, particularly ex-servicemen, speaking out on the UFO matter.
It's part of their job.

RK: A friend of mine was discharged from Green Beret service with a
standing security oath which requires his signing oath renewal forms
every few years-do you?

RD: No. I signed the standard agreement, an oath. You have to swear to
it. I swore that I will not divulge any secrets of classified
material, whatever level classification, secret and above. The levels
are: Restricted, Confidential, Secret, Top Secret . . . there are 40
levels above Top Secret. I am forbidden by oath to ever divulge or
share any material I was privy to during my career, considered to be
sensitive enough, that divulging it would be detrimental to the
security of the United States. That is in my file. Violating my oath,
at any moment, can get me 10 years, a $10,000 fine and forfeiture of
all my pay and allowances. That is no small sword to hang over the
head of, say, an active duty officer with a couple of kids in college,
who is paying off a mortgage.

So, I never have to renew it; it's for life.

RK: Is there any special reason why the clearance you had at NATO is
called Cosmic Top Secret?

RD: It's only a coincidence! In 1947-8, when SHAPE (in England they
call it SHAFE) was established as the military arm of NATO, somebody
in their wisdom decided to put "Cosmic" above Top Secret, because it
sounded so . . . and in 1961-64 they actually reviewed the cosmic
story, the "Assessment" report.

You had to have CTS clearance to be in the War Room, to have access to
anything cosmic: i.e. war plans, Soviet nuclear targets. I had access
to all that stuff. "Cosmic" was and still is the highest level SHAPE
has.

RK: Numerous higher profile personalities, such as Dr. C.B. Scott
Jones, Richard Hoagland, Dr. Steven Greer and yourself, have combined
with representatives for Laurence Rockefeller and the B.S. Wright
Foundation to lobby receptive members of Congress and the U.N. for
official recognition of the extraterrestrial presence phenomenon.

Irrefutable government evidence of an ET presence has unprecedented
significance. Is it correct to say that our "right to know" is
analogous to our "right to live"? So, by merely stating there is an
illegitimate security concern regarding the exposure of UFO data, they
compel everyone.

RD: You understand that during WW II, a war of survival, and during
Cold War years, which we believed at the time was a war of survival,
certain steps had to be taken, in the name of national security; to
protect our security.  And you are aware that things were done, rules
and laws were passed during those years that did indeed, without the
slightest question, violate basic points of the Constitution.  We gave
those rights up willingly in fear that the Germans, with the Japanese,
might win.  We weren't certain we were going to win.  The Germans were
"that" close to finding the nuclear secret.  So, we allowed the
creation of a national security structure in our country.

RK: Our "national will" allowed it.

RD:  The American people, in their willingness to be protected during
the war, gave unprecedented powers to the government, which the it has
never given back.

Now, that government, this secret government-and I say that honest and
bluntly-has become a government -within-a-government. It's primarily
made up of the national security agencies. Not just one, but about a
dozen of them-some, you may not even know about.

Until about a year ago the NRO was a classified term. No one even knew
what the National Reconnaissance Office was until someone wondered
what the hell that $300 million building being built in Washington,
D.C. was intended for. They found out it was the NRO. The president
and most Congress didn't even know about it. Black Budget paid for
that!

The point is . . . we created a monster, and it is haunting us today,
because we do indeed have a government-within-a-government making
policy decisions affecting the lives of every man, woman and child in
this country, affecting the lives of every human being o this planet.
Now, these dudes are not elected, or responsive, or accountable to the
executive or legislative branch.  And most of the budgetary monies
that they have are not even accountable, they call them 'Black Budget'
programs When Tim Weiner wrote his book Blank Check, in 1986, that
"Black Budget" was at least $3 billion. Today, it is $50 billion.

The point is, we created that! We've got to make it stop, or we can
kiss our Constitution goodbye. I've been talking to some cynics who
say it's already too late, that the Constitution is now a meaningless
piece of paper.

RK: Yes, but those supporting the "patriot" movement have applied a
lot of legal analysis to this constitutional crisis. They are of the
opinion there's no reason to be so cynical, because, as Sheriff
Richard Mack proved in winning his suit against the Brady Bill, the
passage of laws eroding our Constitution restricts society under
'color of law' only. People are reminded, law isn't necessarily
absolute-the true law is the Constitution, based upon the beautiful
idea of human rights. In your recent lectures, you favor exhibiting a
copy of our Constitution to your audience. How do unalienable rights
apply to a public "need to know"?

RD: Well, I try to remind people. It's simply a realization-people
themselves should understand they are the government! For God's sake,
they've forgotten this! That's all I'm trying to do. I have a quote
here, in a copy of a letter I sent my two senators from Arizona. I
quote Lincoln. I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth
they can be depended on to meet any national crisis. The point is to
bring them the facts.

I hold up the Constitution because I want people to pay attention to
the first three words: "We, the people . .." They've forgotten that
they are the country, they are the law, they are the Constitution;
they are the government for God's sake. My point is, we have given
away our freedoms. I don't think people realize it. Having been on the
inside-not only for 27 years in the Army, but for 14 years working
with FEMA-I saw it firsthand! We've given away some of our most
precious rights- the rights to know and to participate as enlightened
individuals of our government. They've taken that from us!

National security-bullshit!-it has nothing to do with national
security. It has to do with a few arrogant bureaucrats who are sitting
on the greatest story of all time-for a number of reasons. Originally,
their fear (in the late '40s) was based on some legitimate doubts.
They did not know what that alien visitation meant. Being military,
Harry Truman and General Hoyt Vandenberg immediately assumed we were
going to be invaded.  They'd recalled old Orson Welles  "The War of
the Worlds" from 1938, and that was a factor in their decision.

RK: Yes, but how much weight did such a fear have in a decision
process with many different considerations?

RD: To Vandenberg, it could have been very important. To Truman, the
Cold War could have been the major factor. At that time, during the
McCarthy years, my God, fear and paranoia were running rampant all
over the country. We thought, at the highest levels of military
command, that if the Russians could get a handle on that propulsion
system (of the UFOs), the Cold War is over, and we lost. If we can get
a handle on that propulsion system, we'll win; the Cold War will be
over, and the Russians will have to capitulate. The Cold War, the
fear, the fact that we were dealing with a technology so far beyond
anything either we or the Russians could grasp, made us decide that
whatever that technology was, we gotta have it! And that's one of the
reasons the above Top Secret level was placed on it. That's why the
Canadians, our allies, couldn't even begin to get a little info back
in the early '50s. The Canadians knew what was happening. They thought
they could ask Washington to cooperate. Washington just froze 'em out!

Koppang: History shows that it's unlikely the government will reverse
policy on directly exhibiting crashed saucer remains, etc. (if any do
exist). Yet, as you pointed out, "We the people" could consider it the
ultimate infringement of Article I, Section 9, Clause 7 of the
Constitution to continually research, retrieve and study evidence
without publicly accounting for such expenditures of our taxes. If a
billion(s) dollar "black budget" exists in times of budgetary
"cutback, " that's a lot of money.

Dean: In itself, that is unconstitutional-besides, who's cutting back?
Clinton just added $25 billion.

Koppang: Yes, to a military budget of $1. 5 trillion.

"We the people" are the constitutionally mandated keepers of ultimate
power in a system of which Benjamin Franklin cautioned, "We've given
you a republic-if you can keep it. "

Having a "Cosmic Top Secret "clearance in NATO, how do you feel we can
reconcile the intelligence community's exclusive "need to know" with
the public's right to share in that transcendental knowledge?

Dean: You've got another thing to consider here. You talk about the
intelligence community. It isn't a solid bloc. The "intel" agencies
feed on each other continually. The big fuss is turf and money. They
are always vying for more power and more money. There has been a
difference of opinion within the intel communities for at least the
last 25 years on this subject.  Should we let it out? Should the
American people be told the truth, yes or no? This has gone back and
forth heatedly within the communities themselves. CIA fusses with NSA
[National Security Agency], NSA fusses with DIA [Defense Intelligence
Agency]; it's turf, it's money and it's power.

At the moment, the decision has still been, to my knowledge, "No, we
can't let them know." There are indications that maybe, at some level,
a policy decision has been to slowly, gently, in a non-threatening way
let some of this reality out -- these leaked documents, the fact that
some big mouth like me is violating his oath and getting away with it.
I've thrown the gauntlet down and demanded they come and sue me, take
my pension away, put me in Fort Leavenworth, and they haven't. I said,
"Look guys, if you do, I can subpoena witnesses, I can subpoena
documents that I happen to know exist. We'll have a helluva nice case.
We'll make a real donnybrook out of this.

Well, I'm still getting away with what I'm doing. How effective I am,
I don't know. There does seem to be a gentle trickle of classified
info, either being leaked or allowed to be talked about, indicating to
me that somebody wants it done.

Koppang: And such leaked material-apparently bonafide documents or
hoaxed to appear authentic-cannot be seen to reflect a consensus on
the part of the intel agencies?

Dean: Exactly. They've been arguing amongst themselves for so long you
can't consider them a bloc, debating, "Should we or should we not
allow the 'profane' to access some of this info?"

Koppang: For many reasons, technological and perceptual, a "global
mind change" is occurring. One of the major reasons for this is a
perceived crisis of constitutionality (hiding covert programs lacking
congressional oversight). Some of these programs have involved
researching and/or refusing to publicly share evidence of a possible
ET presence. Was the "Assessment" the ultimate E.T. research project?

Dean: I would not like to think the "Assessment," a three-year study,
reflected the very finest piece of work that could be done of that
subject.  I hope that in our own government, at certain levels, much
more thorough research programs have been conducted. I learned, after
leaving SHAPE/NATO in 1967, that the conclusions of the "Assessment"
had been known essentially as early as 1948 or 1949 by our government,
at least by the Air Force, after the crash at Roswell [New Mexico].
And Roswell was the TIP OF AN ICEBERG. I know of at least a dozen
crash retrievals involving bodies and survivors besides Roswell.

Our government knew in 1949 essentially the same thing that SHAPE
published in 1964, but they kept it at the highest-level
classification, didn't share it with anybody, didn't share it with our
NATO allies. That's why the Air Marshall and General Lymon Lemnitzer
had to conduct the "Assessment" in house, from 1961 to 1964. They
could get nothing from London and Washington on the subject. We knew
some of these things that early!

I hope a thorough evaluation of [the E.T. presence] has been done and
will be shared with the American people by their government. I've
talked to people on the inside who say amazing studies have been
conducted not only in laboratories, not only in research, not only in
hard science, but amazing things have been learned psychologically
about the human condition, the human potential.

Do you know there is an entire operation going on at Los Alamos
involving "remote viewing"? And it works. We've got people who are
trained, who can go into a darkened room, spend a few hours and return
to tell what went on yesterday or this morning in Moscow, in the
Kremlin-without physically going there.

We have developed techniques and technologies-knowledge processes-over
the years that literally revolutionized old, traditional ideas of
Einstein/Newtonian physics. We've learned in the science labs that the
speed of light is not the ultimate, e.g., there are quantum particles.
3 How can you tell "the people" we've learned that minute subatomic
particles appear to manifest intelligence? The UFO matter is simply
the tiny, tiny tip of an iceberg which is so enormous that when the
truth comes out, it's going to change the whole world.

A lot of government scientists and a number of government and military
planners know these things. That's why many of them say, "Hell, no,
we're never gonna let that out. The 'people'will never be prepared for
that."

Roughly 12 years ago-and I've heard from a number of independent
sources-they did indeed pull off a sustained, controlled fusion
reaction at Los Alamos, using lasers.4 In itself, this lircle piece of
scientific knowledge can blow the world up in terms of global
economics. Fusion means endless cheap power. Think what it could do to
the oil companies, auto industry, steel industry and world economy!

Now, I'm making a point here: I understand why that kind of knowledge
must be released carefully, shared carefully, or the whole damn house
of cards is going to fall around us. We [could] have massive world
economic collapse, starvation, riots, blood in the streets, etc. So I
understand something that sensitive won't be released tomorrow. It's
going to be released gently and carefully through the process of
technology, probably over the next 30 to 50 years.

Koppang: How about the implications of E.T. craft maneuverability,
what some refer to as "free energy, " a self-contained gravitation
field propulsion system, powered by some unlimited energy source?

Dean: There's a lot more to it. First of all, there was a crash at
Kingman, Arizona (about 1972), where we retrieved some bodies and
hardware. The hardware was in pretty good shape. Do you know what the
biggest damn secret of all was? They could not find a propulsion
system in that ship! They could not find a motor.

What made it fly; what caused it to crash; how was it propelled; how
was it controlled? To my knowledge, they never did find out. Maybe
they have. There have been a total of 12 [crashes] that I'm aware of.

Koppang: How many crashes were mentioned in the "Assessment"?

Dean: Not too many. The "Assessment" was a military study conducted
with a specific purpose, for a specific time, to reach a specific
goal. [In] 36 months of work, they determined that, no, there
apparently was no threat. The technology, demonstrated so repeatedly,
was so far beyond anything we or the Russians had that, had "they"-at
that point no one had any idea who "they" were-been hostile, it
would've been over a long time ago. [The "Assessment" recommended]
that ongoing research be continued on the subject.

Koppang: Did it mention Roswell?

Dean: No. It only mentioned things they had access to. Like the case
of Operation Mainbrace, a NATO fleet exercise which took place in the
North Sea in the late '50s or early '60s. What happened was that a
couple of UFOs flew over the fleet exercise, hovered over the aircraft
carrier and brought the fleet to a screeching halt. Now, photos were
taken and hundreds of men on the ships saw the UFOs. [The "Assessment"
contained] photos of the Mainbrace sightings, pictures taken aboard
the aircraft carrier of the object hovering a couple hundred feet
above the flight deck.

Koppang: Public acceptance of an E.T. presence translates into a major
step towards completing a 'phase transition " in public consciousness
and in foreign relations. What is your opinion regarding top-level
movements in this direction, particularly from the U.N.?

Dean:I think there's a fairly decent chance the U.N. may do something
positive on this subject. I talked to people who know Mrs. Boutros-
Ghali, I've talked to Muhammad Ramadan, and his interest in it is
pretty intense. Mrs. Boutros Ghali apparently is quite involved and
interested, though I don't know how much her husband is. I think there
is a movement in the U.N. to open up to the reality and do it on the
floor of the U.N. Perhaps that is where it should be done.

I do believe if this whole issue ever comes out the way I'd like to
see it come out, that a multinational, interdenominational program is
probably necessary, rather than a unilateral U.S. piece of info. I
think this reality should involve every major religion. The Dalai Lama
should be [involved]. This reality is gonna have an impact that's
going to affect the world, so it's got to be international and
interdenominational in its release. Everybody on this planet has got
to look at this and not consider it a threat.

Koppang: At the end of World War II, America entered an ahistorical
era in which our previous historical landmarks, war for instance, no
longer dictate the national will. Without a national will of distinct
purpose, the government runs free towards imperialistic profiteering.
As a result, authority loses its grounding, leaving the national will
in a stagnant limbo.

The Apollo moon program and exploration of space should have filled
this need, but they are going nowhere. The budgetary crisis is
grounding them. Comments;

Dean: That's why we are reaching this crucial moment in "history," I
suspect. This may be a given in the universe, on hundreds of thousands
of worlds, where intelligent species reach this crucial moment, as we
have reached it.

We've got thermonuclear weapons, biological weapons, particle-beam
weapons, psychotronic weapons. We can't continue to live the way we
have any longer. Now, if we don't make this adjustment, this coming to
terms with who we are, why we're here, how we came to be here and
where we're supposedly going, then we're going down into the abyss.
It'll be the end of this species. It'll be one little footnote in the
great galactic book: "Well, those people on the third planet in the
little system didn't make it. They self-destructed." I think that's
probably happened thousands and thousands of times.

I believe we're at that point where we either have to make it and get
off the planet, go out and take our place in space with other
intelligences out there, or we're going to self destruct. And those
intelligences out there are not about to let us come "out there" with
our [war-making] baggage. They're going to keep us quarantined here
until we self-destruct, or until we do come to terms with this new
reality, this paradigm shift, as painful as it's going to be. And with
hope, we'll step out into that vast community.

To me it's dear as it can be, but I don't know how to get this info
out to the masses of people. A few others in this [effort] and I are
trying as best we can, in our limited way, to do it. But we're at a
crucial moment in our history as a species and as a race!

Koppang: In your discussion with these think-tank and philanthropic
representatives (e.g.B.S. Wright Foundation, CSETI, Arlington
Institute, Laurence Rockefeller, et. al.), here such considerations
been made?

Dean: Oh, yes. They've come to similar conclusions, [but] they're at a
loss, as many of us are, as to how they can bring [their] conclusions
to the attention of the lawmakers, to those who make the rules and are
the centers of power. That's why I'd like to see this done through the
U.N.  But I'm not sure it's possible, because the United States sits
with its big thumb poised over the U.N. Any time the U.N. comes up
with an issue the United States dislikes, they cut off funding-close
to 60 to 65 percent of U.N. budgets-for years! Big money talks.

It's like what happened in the European Community [EC] Parliament not
long ago. This was brought up, to make an issue of the UFO/alien
involvement and establish a program of research in that body to deal
with it. Guess who withdrew ' their support for that issue? We're [the
U.S.] not even a member of the EC, and we shot it down.

Koppang: Oh, you mean the "European UFO Observation Center"  proposal
by EC parliamentarian and physicist Tullio Regge. He was commissioned
to prepare an official report on ET intelligence for the EC Parliament
Committee on Energy, Research & Technology.

Dean: And the U.S. somehow brought pressure to bear (via member
nations) and stopped it.

Koppang: Based on your personal experience with and investigation of
these "keepers of truth," how do you feel about those who believe they
"know, " or possibly even do know, the true history of the terra/lunar
origin-including a possible E. T. presence?

Dean: You have asked many questions I have been giving a lot of
thought to. Perhaps I'm focusing my anger and my rage in the wrong
direction. [Perhaps] our government is not really that much in control
and has never been. Like Disraeli said a few times, people never quite
understood that if the average person knew what real power and
intelligences were behind the operations [of] national governments,
they'd be shocked. Now, precisely what he referred to I don't know.
I've often suspected he was referring to the same thing Charles Fort'
referred  to and what William Bramley refers to. What if-I throw this
out as a possibility to you, and I don't have an answer for you- what
if "the gardeners" of this little plot, the "landowners," the
"landlords" (as the Carpenter from Galilee referred to them in some of
his parables) are out there? What if the Koran is true? What if the
Bible is true? What if the Bhagavad-Gita is true? What if all our so-
called governments and our wars and our bloodshed and our savagery and
the terrible history of the human race have not been at all what we
might suspect?

We are indeed products and part of a vast, intricate long-term
biological/sociological experiment. We have now reached a point where
we can blow up the "laboratory," where we can eliminate all of the
"trained mice," where the lab-experimenter, technician and director
are now going to intervene. I throw that out [to stimulate thought].

Koppang: Mention the book you've found so helpful in this area, and
which substantiates Sitchin's work.

Dean: The Genius of the Few, by Christian O'Brien, 1985,, published in
Britain. It's a masterpiece! It goes even further than Sitchin.
O'Brien is a Sumerian scholar of incredible capability and
credentials. He translates a series of cuneiform tablets dealing with
the establishment of the first research center at Kharsag, Lebanon, on
Mt. Hermon where the first "landing" apparently took place. There are
historical records to prove that the Anunnaki-the first time they
arrived-landed on Mt. Hermon, Lebanon, and they indeed had a hand in
constructing that inexplicable thing we've got there called Ba'albek
terrace (built with 200-ton stones).

As a student of history and theology, I've always been shocked by the
similarities of passages in the Koran, the Bible and the Gita. This is
not just a coincidence. You talk about synchronicity; it all strikes
me as a part of a vast, intricate, intelligent plan. And when we come
to this world, when we incarnate for our little prancing time on the
stage, as Shakespeare liked to say, we're all players playing our
roles. We come out of the wings, we prance across the stage, we
rehearse and say our lines and [exit] as our time is over. The human
life experience is just a dribble of time.

What if we're part of an incredibly vast, planned, purposeful,
intelligent program of some kind?

Koppang: Creation, by any other name!

Dean: Where will you go with these ideas? And I'm not restricted by
any preconceived ideas. I don't have an awful lot to unlearn. We
discussed earlier the [respectably educated] people with all of the
knowledge; they can't possibly begin to gain any true knowledge until
they unlearn all the crap they learned before! I'm fortunately not
crippled in that way, because I don't have a lot of letters behind my
name.

Koppang: So, we can be true scientists?

Dean: You bet!  I'm not what you'd call a scholar.  I'm just a nosey,
curious person who asks a lot of questions.