Re: Hey you stupid debunkers - Engineer/Astronaut sez ETs here! MORE PROOF!!!

On Jul 24, 4:27�pm, "Hagar" <ha...@sahm.name> wrote:

"mike3" <mike4...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:9b32ce2b-f611-445d-bd85-a0a0aae947a0@j1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...

On Jul 24, 2:30 pm, "Hagar" <ha...@sahm.name> wrote:
<snip>

� � � There are no UFOs in our Solar System, much less on Earth.

You've been to the entire solar system and all over the Earth, and
looked
everywhere and not found them? I'm impressed. Proving a negative
existential claim is pretty hard, you know? Actually, there ARE
"UFOs",
as in aerial phenomena that one cannot identify. Does that mean they
are alien spaceships? No. It doesn't. It means they cannot be
identified.

Therefore, anyone who thinks they saw one, is delusional.

But seeing one is what you need to do if you want to know it exists.


First off, let me clarify one thing: �Life in the Universe will be proven to
be the rule, rather than the exception.


Yes, I think so.

It is also a given that there are intelligences and technologies billions of
years advanced of our own.


With as many starts, probably so too.

I do believe that other intelligences are traveling throughout the Cosmos.


Yes, this too.

You are correct, there are UFOs everywhere, in the actual sense of the word.
I should have used Alien Spaceships, instead.

Have Aliens been to Earth ?? Very likely. �They may even be somewhat
responsible for our own evolution or even seeding the planet 4B years ago,
for all I know.


But without any proof, you cannot say for sure. I.e. this is just as
speculative
as everyone else. That's the thing with these UFOs -- they cannot be
captured
or studied, just seen -- so for now at least the nature of such FOs,
when they
are truly U (unknown) (as some if not many claimed "UFOs" can indeed
be
explained by common phenomena -- true UFOs -- unknown/unidentifiable
objects -- are only a much smaller proportion of reports), will remain
just that:
U -- unknown. Speculative theories about alien spacecraft are fun, but
without
any proof there is no point in taking them as fact. Mystery is
mystery, and
speculative theories do not resolve it.

But LipFlappers stubborn belief in them reminds me of my wife, who is a born
again X-tian and swears that God exists, even though nobody has ever seen a
trace of him, but she can point to hundreds of coincidences that "could"
indicate divine intervention, but then the odds are against that sort of
thing.


So does this mean even if these "coincidences" happened every single
time, that still
would not indicate anything? Or is it that they don't happen every
single time?

So, unless someone finds pieces parts of an extraterrestrial vehicle or
presents a live (or dead) Alien, which can be positively identified as such,
all the speculation and wishful thinking are just plain, good old bull shit.


They are just that: speculation whose truth value is unknown. To
believe them as
absolute proven fact is silly.

As for tests to determine what UFOs may be, one way is obviously to
shoot some
video and analyze that. Especially shot through a telescope. However I
would not
trust anyone else's video as that could all be faked. Only by shooting
the video
myself would I know for sure that it is not faked (or if I was there
in person with someone
else when they were shooting video.). Similarly, nobody but me or
someone there
with me would be able to trust my video. UFOs also don't seem to show
up on
demand, so that makes it harder still. :)

This would not be conclusive, however, but it might provide a little
more than
100% speculative results. The only rub is, like I said, since
everything can be faked,
one can really only trust it when one does it oneself. And nobody else
could really
trust your results, either. Although obvious hoaxes can be spotted
fairly easily, better
hoaxes cannot. Personally, however, I'd assign Astronaut Mitchell's
statements more
weight than that of some random person off the street, but since they
are still anecdotes
and so cannot be treated as conclusive, hard proof of anything.

It's really sad that there are so many of these hoaxes out there, as
it destroys any
ability to trust testing methods and makes getting to the bottom of
this thing a big,
huge bear of a thing to do! Plus the general reluctance of mainstream
scientists to
dip in on this and collect evidence that would be more credible due to
its coming from
a more trustable source doesn't help either.

Frustrating, isn't it?