Interview with the late Dr. Karla Turner and Melinda Leslie
Commemorating Dr. Karla Turner's untimely passing, this triad of
interviews gives greater exposure to underreported insights from her
CE4 (ET abduction) research. Dr. Turner died of cancer January 10,
1996. She pursued CE4 mysteries, both as investigator and one
encountering being "taken". Turner's interview is combined here with
data provided via the experiences claimed by two abductees, MeLeslie
(Part 1) and James Baxter (Part 2). The dialogue with Dr. Turner and
Melinda Leslie occurred May 7, 1995.
In our global debate over which social forces will impact most on
human futures, ET/UFO data is not even an issue . . . yet. However, in
recent years, perhaps a prime obstacle to public recognition of UFO
data is the constant stream of paranormal scenarios termed
"abduction." The paranormal character of such possible experience is
additionally implausible to science and its skeptical demands for
scientific verifiability.
The CE4 context in focus here is Ufologically controversial. But it
should be easier to corroborate, moreover, if "official disclosure" of
UFO reality opens doors for sanctioned inquiry. The goal here is
recognizing patterns of data where CE4 experiencers report events
apparently having human interference, at times appearing entirely
perpetrated by humans. Such evidence abounds. And we make this
distinction: possibly encountering ET vs. being kidnapped, or
surveilled and harassed by humans, either by military security or a
corporate intelligence command. To be sure, the intent here is not to
stereotype ET as good, bad or indifferent; and not to allege guilt, by
second guessing the politics of policy-making throughout 50 years of
global social deconstructionism.
The UFO community has spawned the controversy to which I refer. A
"major theme" of (Katharina Wilson's), 'The Alien Jigsaw' is (her)
determined rebellion against the typical abduction scenario (reported
by) major researchers (whose view of) elements that don't ~
fit into commonly repeated patterns don't deserve inclusion in the
literature." Ms. Wilson believes "it's going to take a lot of
different researchers, each with a different focus, to pull all of
this information together," since CE4s may comprise "teaching dreams,
visions, alien theatrics and shades of goverment involvement."
In the growing body of CE4 literature, reports of human/governmental
interference in - individual experiences would be deemed "atypical."
Yet, the following cases do so: Leah Haley, Christa Tilton, Diane
Sanchez, Pam Hamilton, Karla Turner and husband Casey, Kim Carlsberg,
Katharina Wilson, Melinda Leslie, Lori Lingenfelter, Licia Davidson,
James Baxter, Bette Andreasson Luca and husband Bob, Beth Collins,
Steve Neill, Anna Jamerson, Whitley Strieber, Larry Warren, Debbie
Jordan and others. Most of these case histories are well documented in
available books.
Fifty years of recent history reveals academic/scientific rejection of
unbiased inquiry into "typical" UFO data, culminating as evidence of
institutionalized denial and, therefore, pop-media distortions of the
facts. Thus, by grounding an area of UFO research in simple terms of
exclusively human affairs, we tend to broaden our collective
perception, lending credibility to routinely reported patterns of
paranormal experience implicitly; e.g., the growing corpus of
revisionist history regarding the parapsychology of post-quantum
intelligence-gathering by the National Security State. ET is not the
exclusive subject of Ufology. An expose of the following unforeseen
circumstances can lead to an interface between the paranormal and
covert earthbound operations. Evidence demands this.
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Randy Koppang
Randy Koppang: It's quite possible to overlook and undervalue obscure
details of CE4 research generally, although these certainly don't
impair or discredit the major premise: actual human involvement in ET/
CE4. Please comment on the -abduction/kidnapping of CE4s.
Karla Turner: Yes! My first exposure to this was when my husband was
kidnapped by "military" before I was ever into research. We were
having our own experiences and trying to deal with them. In November
1988, my husband was taken to an underground facility; completely
military, completely human. He had been in the military nine years
prior (to our marriage).
This was very clearly, to him, a military installation and a massive
storage installation. We thought (it may have been) the FEMA center in
town, where we lived. Because it's the Continuity of Government FEMA
facility, for one thing. And there are many generators/dynamos, all
sorts of supplies. He saw this storage (type) area when being taken
from the holding area. There were a number of other people in a very
dazed, zombie like state, as he was, taken by military guard down a
corridor to a room where there was a Major, in uniform, behind a desk,
where Casey was seated in front of the desk. (He was) questioned
specifically about what alien activities our family had been involved
in; what he knew about any of their agenda.
He was so outraged at being taken, even in his dazed state, he
absolutely refused. He even tried to sink back into the out-of-it
state they aroused him out of for this so he would not have to answer.
He was extremely outraged! The Major got more and more angry, and made
threats to the family that we would be hurt if he didn't talk. He
refused to talk. Then—something—all we (know) is something was applied
to the back of his neck and he went totally out. (Casey) doesn't know
if he was interrogated in that state. I suppose there are states you
can be put in where you're not aware but can still be talked to.
He was returned home the following morning. When he woke up, there was
still some drug effect in his system, and disorientation. He was
still having the visual "trails" effect from whatever was given him.
He recalled quite a bit consciously what had occurred. With two
different regression sessions, a year apart, he was able to fill in a
lot of what did go on, but never got past when they zapped the back of
his neck.
I'd never heard of anybody being kidnapped by military at that point.
Ever! This was an anomaly, and at that point was the most outrageous
thing; I mean, far more outrageous, to us, than alien abduction had
been, simply be cause of it being our own people.
RK: So you really do think there actually are aliens?
KT: I think there are non-human entities. I had encountered an
insectoid being when I was five and a half years old. I don't know
where they come from. It's as good a guess they're terrestrial in
origin as that they are ET in origin. They're not like us! It bothers
me that if they were ET, they are most adept at cover stories
regarding where they are from. Also, in my opinion, we're a vital
resource for them. They take from us something that's very necessary.
If they came from some other system (etc.), why would we be a vital
source for them if we're not part of their natural situation? So, I
find it a little far-fetched to
think that they came in from (outside). And if we ever get to the
genetics (issue), I think the cross-breeding hypothesis is another
cover story.
RK: In the chronology of your experience, was there a clearly defined
event after which the human interference phenomenon began to occur,
additional to what you believed were exclusively ET encounters?
KT: There were several events which made me aware of the human
involvement angle. First off, consciously, I had recalled an abduction
by an alien being when I was five and a half years old, always
remembered from the time it occurred, throughout my life. I had
another event consciously recalled in 1981. Then, my husband began to
recall events (occurring) in his childhood, clearly involving craft
and entities. We (then) began having
things happen in current time; in our house, CE4s. So we began to
explore what was going on.
It wasn't until November 1988, when Casey was taken by the military,
that we knew for sure how far military personnel would go. Up to this
point, the minute he began to realize what was happening, and we
(communicated with) someone in the UFO community by phone, we began
having phone interference, mail tampering. The first two times we met
with Ufologists, we were followed by the same car, two different
times, two months apart. We began having helicopter overflights;
numerous, numerous overflights, all times of the day and night,
different type (of them). We lived in our house for five years and
never had helicopters before then. It became the standard. I mean, I'd
have nine a day!
So we knew there was a human element involved. First, we thought they
were just monitoring (conversa-tions). But once we made phone
connections, we began having all this human-type activity:
surveillance and a number of other things that are in the book.
RK: So that's what did it. You came out of the woodwork; you were on
the phone—they said, ahh! Here's one.
KT: Right! My son was in graduate school in physics. He was engaged to
a woman in graduate school. She was a ROTC student. In her senior year
(prior to graduate school), she had medical problems and wanted to
leave the program, was in the process of going through the procedures
to leave. But since it was coming time for her to graduate, if she
didn't get out, she'd have to ask for a duty assignment, etc., go
through the rest of her training. Though she hadn't got out of the
ROTC program at that point (she knew she was leaving), they said you
still have time to sign up for a duty assignment. She went to the ROTC
sergeant to make an assignment request. And she made a request that
would keep her closest to her medical doctors, ...
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