Subject: Re: OT: Microsoft OS features (was Re: Problem w/SETI Queue. Possibly from latest SETI Spy?)
From: Robin Laing
Date: 19/09/2003, 21:31
Newsgroups: alt.sci.seti

I normally don't reply to this type of post but how could I resist.

Al Wilson wrote:
http://www.hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm


Oh boy, the FUD runs fast and deep in that article.  Linux this
and Linux that.  Too bad Linux can't run quality do-something
software.  I tried Linux, here is what I found:

Read this site and if you really do read it, the information is linked to other sources including Microsofts own WWW site.  Obviously M$ is posting lies about their own software to it can be used as FUD.


Firstly, Linux is very hard to use. Yes, many distributions are easy to
install and KDE has a nice user interface. That is only there to trick
unsuspecting users. Try installing software in Linux. Most of Linux
software is available as source code. Many Linux cult members lie
that it is easy to install from source code. All you have to do is type
3 commands: ./configure, make and make install. That is nothing but
bull. Every distro puts files in different places. The configure is
supposed to guess where all the files it needs are. It always 500%
of the time fails. You have to edit files with cryptic garbage to get
it to work. After all of that you learn you need a crap load of
dependencies. These are library files needed for software to work,
similar to .dll in Windows. So then you have to search all over the
internet looking for the crap load of dependencies and after 5 days
you find them all. You try to install them and you get warnings that it
cannot be installed because other crapware needs an older library
file. So you spent 5 days for nothing.

I must agree partly with this statment.  Some software is hard to install from source or RPM but I have had the same problem with Windows.  Don't have the latest patch, then your software can stop loading in the middle of the install requireing a hard reboot.  Change a DLL and then your older program quits working due to newer DLL. Experienced both in the past on Win 95, 98 and XP.

I have some older Windows programs that won't install on XP and I cannot justify purchasing a newer version when a Linux version works just as well for free.

Now here is the easy part.  My daughter uses linux and she is only 6.  Are you trying to say that my daughter is more computer savy than you are?  She has her own desktop and filesystem and configures her account the way that she wants.  She has been doing this since she was 5.  Of course she cannot install software across the system, only in her own account.  Of course this could be the reason that you could not install software properly, you didn't have the right access while trying.  I also don't have to worry about viruses taking down the whole system.


There is rpm which is precompiled software packages. This is a little
easier but you still run into dependency hell. Then there is Debian's
apt-get and Gentoo's emerge commands. You type apt-get GIMP
and it will download GIMP and its dependencies and install it. This
is very easy, however this only works for a very small amount of
software. The vast majority of the software will not work with apt-get
or emerge. Now you know why Linux distros come with several CDs.
They are loaded up with software because it is the only way to install
them.

Windows would come on multiple CD's if it included all the source code and hundreds of applications.  When was the last time anyone actually saw any source code for windows and came with hundreds of application programs?


Linux is not stable. I have had several kernel panics in the past 5 months.
I have had nothing but freezes and lock ups. Windows 2000/XP is
10 trillion times more stable than Linux. I have built 20 computers
since Windows 2000 has came out and all 20 have never had a freeze,
auto reboot, bsod, hiccup or a burp. Many have run several months
24/7 without even a warm boot. On top of that you can run something
called quality software. You put in the CD and insert finger in ass and
the software is installed without problems.

I have had linux run for close to a year without a warm boot or lockup.  I have also updated and installed patches without reboots.  I would like to know how you installed all the patches (weekly) and upgrades without reboots?


Now that you know it is next to impossible to install software in Linux,
lets take a look at a few impossible to install astronomy programs for
Linux. Firstly, the main reason to use astronomy software is because
of the extensive database they come with. Stars to 15th magnitude
and the ability to download UNSO A2 data is an absolute must. Over
100,000 deep sky objects are a must also. We like to look at something
other then M this and NGC that over and over again. There are great
objects such as the coat hanger cluster and strongman cluster we
would like ploted. Also, CCD imagers need a large database so they
can identify the objects they have imaged.

KStars is a popular Linux astronomy program. First it is version 0.9
that means beta and it is buggy and crashes. Also it doesn't have the
data as described above. Remember TheSky version 1 running on our
386 and 486 computer with Windows 3.1? Even that is far better than
Kstars. Xplns isn't any better either. It plots a few stars and a puny
deep sky database of 10,000 deep sky objects. Guide has over a
million deep sky objects. Cartes Du Ceil is free and is far better than
Kstars and Xplns put together. That's right folks: Windows has better
free software than Linux does.

I have used 0.0.x versions that have worked better and more reliably that some of MS's own software.  Of course I don't like to.


XEphem the king astronomy software to the Linux cult. After I spent
10 days trying to compile I ran the software and I laughed. What a
joke for a user interface. When you click on an object (that is if you
can find an object with is puny database) you have to hold down the
mouse button for the data to stay on-screen. The display looks like
the astronomy software we used in the 80's. It isn't Starry Night. It
only has basic typical hum drum features that any other charting,
ephemeris software has. Guide has tons more features. To be fair
you can purchase the CD version which has something called a
database but why bother - there is Cartes Du Ceil and it kicks
XEphem's ass.

The only astronomy program that I have used in Xplns.  I am new to the astronomy software experience so I cannot comment.  I have yet to have Xplns crash, lockup or do anything wrong on my computer.


Linux has no alternatives for the great programs like Deep Sky 2002
or SkyTools. Those are very useful programs and Linux has nothing to
offer for planning and logging.

Windows is freedom. It gives you the choice to run top quality astronomy
software such as TheSky, Skymap Pro, Skytools and Guide the best
astronomical software there is period. You can even have free software
such as CDC, Hello Northern Sky which blow away Kstars, Xplns
and XEphem software. You even have the freedom to run Linux-like crap
such as crappy Sky Globe. Do yourself a favor: run as fast as you can
away from the communist evils of Linux and embrace the freedom of
Windows 2000/XP.

Say no to Linux.


I must say yes to Linux and no to Windows.  I have yet to see XP run on a 5 year old computer.  I can run Linux on a P90 though slow.

I use Linux at work in a Windows world and have only run into problems with progams that use special windows calls and they don't work on XP so they are toast.  At least in Linux I can get older programs working, even some windows programs, unlike Windows XP.

I know people that don't/won't run linux for the same reasons that you don't but that is their problem.  I will stick with what works for me,  Linux.  My wife has already told me that our new computer will be Linux.

I run Linux on a dualboot machine with XP on it.  In two days of XP I had many lockups and in two cases, I had to power down as the machine froze solid.  I have had linux freeze once on this machine and I could trace the problem to a power saver program.  No lockups since that day.  31 days since the last power failure here at work.  I cannot remember the last reboot at home but it is months ago.