"Nick M V Salmon" <spam_dump@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:bkubaf$bde$3@titan.btinternet.com...

Hi all

Been thinking about this for some time since seeing the weird looking
Siefert galaxies in Hubble's 'Deepfield' pic...

Astronomers reckon that Sieferts (& many other galaxies) have very large
black holes at their centres.

Sieferts produce 'gas jets' many thousands of light years long that were

at

one time thought to be travelling faster than light - now known to be a
geometric illusion but they are travelling at close to C.

I read somewhere that it is possible for a black hole to rotate so fast

that

the singularity and it's associated event horizon become doughnut shaped.
ie. There is a hole right through the middle that is exterior to the 'no

way

out' event horizon limit..?

I also read somewhere that if a quark pair were to be somehow torn apart
then the resultant would be two quark pairs..?

Gravity acting at the centre of any regular body is zero because it

cancels

out BUT the effective tidal force between the picoscopically exact centre

of

the black hole and not much more than a Planck length away from it must be
absolutely phenomenal.

(I am no mathematician, so I have put a figure on it.)

A source of 'new' matter direct from energy perhaps..? (From Gravity ?

From

reduced rotation of the black hole ?) Maybe producing these 'gas jets'

from

matter flowing into the very centre of the black hole then torn apart to
it's
fundamentals and beyond..?.

What would a Siefert doing that look like in the radio spectrum if aligned
exactly with the earth so that you could see into the exact centre of the
black hole doughnut - a vast outpouring of energy across every waveband
methinks but only some would reach this far - Quasars maybe..?  [The

further

away you look the more likely you are to see a Siefert galaxy exactly
aligned with us - simply because your angle of view contains increasing
numbers of galaxies the further away you look.]

Why would the two quark pair product of a single quark pair fly apart so
violently that one half formed a gas jet traveling fairly close to C..?
Dunno, elastic reaction like the 'ouch' if you pull a rubber band into two
halves..? <LOL>

+++

A fast spinning black hole must make one heck of a gyroscope..!

If the gravity gradient elsewhere than the centre hole but still exterior

to

the event horizon of a very old, evry massive Siefert galaxy were also
sufficient to tear quark pairs apart; Any matter falling through the event
horizon might produce a similar effect but methinks the resultant broader
'jets' wouldn't be straight - the inbound half would act on the gyroscope

of

the black hole and cause it to rotate across it's axis of rotation

90degrees

around the plane of rotation from the point of impingement - thus any gas
jet from inward falling matter would move _outward_ in an apparent spiral.
One of the clearest pictures of a Siefert galaxy in the Hubble 'Deepfield'
pic looks like nested helices to me - I wonder what the comparative

doppler

shifts on some of these Siefert galaxies and their 'spiral arms' looks
like..?

Matter orbiting the black hole and occasionally grazing close enough to be
torn apart producing more gas jets so that they end up looking like a

mare's

nest around the central core..?  Very old gaseous arms condensed to stars
slowed almost to a stop and probably falling back in eventually because

the

black hole is still gaining mass from all the inward flowing 'new matter'
quark pairs..?

I do wonder where the energy would be taken from - conversion of matter =>
energy (gravity ?)  => matter from inside a galactic mass black hole -

hey,

ya know, this isn't _black_ hole theory, it's _white_ hole theory but with
an increasing mass black hole at it's heart.

Fun ideas and a pity I haven't even a hundredth part of the math necesary

to

investigate these ideas mathematicaly - feel free to pass them on to

anyone

who might be able to make something solid out of them...

+++

A little more fun before I head for bed - stream of thought;   Hmmnn, I've
often wondered about what happens at the very heart of a black hole -

matter

squeezed to the point that forces we can't even speculate upon appear to
stop it shrinking yet further..?  Does matter continue shrinking by the
force of it's own gravity until it becomes a singularity..? What _is_ a
singularity - a single point below the Planck length in any dimension..?
That's effectively outside our spacetime methinks - but still distorting
it..? How..? Weird..!  Or is that the point it's effects disappear
completely from our ken with neither a pop nor a whimper..? :-) _Is_ there
yet another force that gains prominence as quark matter is pressed closer
together that holds the matter to a _measurable_ volume, ie. within our
spacetime..?  _Is_ anything that becomes 'immeasureably small' within our
spacetime, our reality, or has it left it..?  How massive does a black

hole

have to be before that happens..?   Hah, no 'Chandrasekahar style'

paradigm

shift mass limit from UK_Nick 'cause he can only speculate, not work it

out.

:-(  Oh well, speculating is fun but it would be far and away preferable

to

_know_;  Is there a 'pop' after all, a tear in spacetime but to where..?
Another Quasar source..?  Hmmn, I don't know it but maybe that's something
like 'comventional' Quasar white hole theory..?  'Popped' through from
another dimension, another leaf in the multi-dimensional book..?  BUT, why
would it _expand_ this side of a dimensional boundary - opposite 'rules'

to

the other side of that boundary so matter constructed from energy there
exhibits agravitational force here..?  Hmmmn, turn a black hole inside out
and that's one Almighty BANG..!!! (Nice multi-level entendre in that one.
:-)))  Hmmmnnn, only _one_ big bang or was "The Big Bang" rather local
parochial..?  Andromeda by a different pop..? :-)  ie. Colliding galaxies
from different pops..?  In both the American and English senses of

course -

Arrrgghh, I'm now laughing so hard it's difficult to type, so I'd better
stop..............

Laterz: Bugger, another thought I just have to put on 'paper' - if that
point at the centre of a toroidal black hole is under sufficient
decompressive stress, could it open a 'portal' to another 'where' by
inverting the 'below Planck length rule' for remaining within a reality..?
ie. open a hole in spacetime to a place where matter is more ubiquitous

than

open space - hmmn, now where would that be, aha, the centre a black

hole..!

Ding, they do say that opposites attract. :-)  Perhaps that would be

suffice

as a 'pressure relief valve' so that inverse galactic 'big bang' pops only
happen at huge intervals...?  So maybe that's the (or one of the many ?)
possible Siefert Galaxy gas jet sources too..?   There sure are a lot of
'arms' at various dispersions around that particular Galactic centre......

Sometimes my head hurts... <LOL>

Ciao & NiNight all... ;-)

[UK]_Nick...
-- 
Nick M V Salmon  Master Mariner  MN(Retd.)
Mailto: My four initials@btinternet.com
http://www.nmvs.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm

I'm pretty sure that is like the theme of the book below:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0061056944/qid=1064587777/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-7512153-8147166?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

There was a large ring shaped mass and the gravity from the ring distorted
the space in the centre. I don't know what physical properties it would have
though.