On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:40:20 GMT, "Eric" <nospam@no.nospam.not> wrote:

I started a previous thread, ("What the hell is up with Boinc?"), regarding
older computers and Boinc performance.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sci.seti/browse_thread/thread/c4552ebed4e3b28e/5379c8e7d3ead36b#5379c8e7d3ead36b

I have a few computers here that are very similiar to the ones you
described, spec-wise.   Only difference I can see is that I have broadband
(cable) and a WLAN going on..  These computers aren't my main "working
computers", but are used as "file servers".  Basically, they are just dumb
data dumpsters.  (Perfect homes for SETI, one would think.) All are 450 Mhz
and 500 Mhz P3's, 512MB RAM, Win98, ect. HDD's in all are SCSI-U2W.  The
largest of the towers has a m/b that supports two processors and has RAID
capapability with it's onboard SCSI -- so, one of these days, I plan on
consolidating all the HDD's into that tower, get the RAID thing going on,
pick up another processor, and get an OS up and running to take advantage of
duals.   I'm going to pick up a NAS first though, so will have plenty of
space to "juggle with" before swapping stuff around.

Anyway... My experience with Boinc on these has not been very good.  I would
just stick to SETI Classic until it is completely shut down.

My main problems with Boinc on them are all "known issues" with older PC's
and Win98:

- Boinc causes explorer.exe (shell) to hang about once every week or two.
Explorer will automatically restart, but all the network protocols get
fungled afterwards requiring a physical reboot to get them talking again.
This is very annoying as all these towers are running (hidden) inside a
closet with no monitor/keyboard attached.  They are streamlined to a mininum
and kept clean against malware.  The only applications, besides Boinc, that
are running is just UltraVNC (freeware remote desktop) and LCDC (program to
send displays to LCD screens), and of course the network protocols.  Without
Boinc running, they run forever.  With it, they are lucky to make it two
weeks.

I have one machine running Classic under win98 and it needs a hard
boot about every 30 days. BUT that about conincides with the known
issue Windows 98 running out of resources in 34 days max too.
My slowest machine is a Pii 450 that was thrown in the trash and
picked up and given to me by a friend. It takes almost a day and a
half to process one unit! It will NOT be here long!
Other than that all but one machine is over 1000mhz! Right now the
fastest is an AMD64 3200+ but I have a P4 D840EE on order, it should
be here by the end of this week or early next.
I have one machine runing Windows Me and the only reason it is here is
because it runs flawlessly! ALL the rest are running either Win2kPro
or XP Home or Pro.

- The damn screensaver "password protected" un-feature.  Not really a big
deal since these towers aren't using monitors anymore, but still annoying.
This is another "known issue" that they have been promising to fix "in the
next version" -- for the last 3+ years.  With certain graphic chipsets (ATI,
UltraTNT), and Win98, if you have "password protected" enabled for the Boinc
screensaver then once the screensaver activates you won't be able to get
back to your desktop.  The screensaver runs just fine, but when the password
dialogue box appears it put's the mouse focus BEHIND the box -- so you can't
ever type your password into the box!  You have to power cycle.  It is a
"known issue" and has nothing to do with any settings or options -- nor is
it possible to focus into the box by alt-tab'ing or anything like that
either.  Boinc's response to this "known issue" has been, for years, to
"just use another another screensaver" if you want to use a secure
screensaver.  I guess one of Boinc's objectives was to have the only
screensaver that does not allow the use of passwords.  Many people report
the same annoyance with WinXP ("password on resume") as well. (Yes, I know
it works correctly for some but for many it does not.  If it does for you,
thats great.)

The fastest way to run either Classic or Boinc is to just not use a
screensaver. Use the power button instead. Your power company might
send you a note asking you to power things back up but beyond that and
ESPECIALLY if you don't even have a monitor, just disable the
screensaver.

- Boinc is buggy and bloated (on older PC's with Win98).  Even if explorer
doesn't hang, Boinc starts running pretty bad after about a week anyway.
SETI Classic runs beautifully on these PC's.  Is Boinc and Seti Classic, at
the core, doing the same number crunching algorithms to find ET?  If so, why
can't Boinc be as efficient as Classic?

Right now yes both use the same program underneath. In the future
Boinc can make changes to the Seti part on the fly and that was one
reason for moving on.

(Yes, all these PC's are kept current with Bill's updates, behind firewalls,
scanned regularly for viruses and spyware, defragged periodically, ect.)

I stopped updating my old ones unless they are really giving me fits.
I figure if it doesn't hurt to run the way it is, why change it?

I'd just stick with Classic.  "If its not broken, don't fix it."   

Cheers,
Eric
(who misses the good 'ol SETI that was transparant and required no
babysitting.)

Boinc WILL get there, just not today or probably tomorrow either.