| Subject: Re: The Fermi Paradox and SETI Success |
| From: John Harshman |
| Date: 14/08/2008, 01:38 |
| Newsgroups: sci.astro.amateur,alt.sci.seti,alt.sci.planetary,talk.origins |
K_h wrote:
Fermi's paradox suggests that there are little or no other intelligent
civilizations within the Milky Way galaxy. On the other hand, intelligent
life should exist on a substantial fraction of planets with life because
natural selection broadly increases intelligence with time.
Does it? News to me. What evidence do you have that this is the case?
Here on the
Earth, for example, numerous mammals have a high degree of intelligence and
many of them could reach human intelligence with a few more million years of
evolution.
Yes, if there were indeed strong selection pushing them toward greater
intelligence. What makes you think there is?
This contradiction can be resolved if the origin of life is far harder than
commonly believed.
Easier to resolve it by doubting your central claim, that there is a
general trend toward increasing intelligence. The great majority of the
world's living species will not disagree with you, because they're
bacteria without so much as a nerve among them.
That is, in the Drake equation, f_L should be far
smaller than most people think it is. Even on planets that are life
friendly the formation of life should be extremely rare for the below
reasons.
For life to start, a molecule must arise that can make approximate copies of
itself. Once that happens then natural selection can work its magic. But a
molecule that can make approximate copies of itself must be a fairly
sophisticated nano-machine being comprised of dozens, if not hundreds, of
molecules and it must arise via inorganic and non-evolutionary processes.
From the study of DNA and genes, it is known that all life on the Earth has
a common origin (undoubtedly from a molecule of the aforementioned kind).
Since Earth is a life friendly planet, why hasn't another molecule (of the
aforementioned kind) arisen? If it had, then life on the Earth would have
organisms with two different molecules for genetic codes: DNA and something
else.
Not necessarily. What if DNA is the only reasonable basis? It would be
invented independently more than once. But of course all life we know of
is related. Either life arose here once because it's just that unlikely,
or it arose several times and only one survives (look up coalescence, if
you will), or the first origin to happen changed conditions to make it
unlikely for a second origin to happen. You're going to have to rule out
the other two alternatives if you want to pick the first one. Another
problem is that life arose comparatively soon after the world became
hostpitable to attempts; it doesn't sound that unlikely.
Since all Earthly life is based on DNA, this suggests that, over the four
billion years of life on Earth, this has never happened again. That is,
over the last four billion years, no other molecule has arisen by inorganic
and non-evolutionary processes that can make approximate copies of itself.
And Earth is a life-friendly planet so chances are optimal that such a
molecule should arise.
Not true. Earth is now a very life-unfriendly planet. Organic molecules
are eaten before they have much chance to evolve, and that nasty
poisonous oxygen degrades organic compounds.
[snips]
In light of all this, it cannot be concluded that water, oxygen, and
methane, for example, are indicators of extraterrestrial life. The presence
of these simple gases in the atmospheres of other planets can easily be
explained by inorganic processes.
Who says water is an indicator of life? It's only claimed to be
necessary for life. Methane, as far as I know, is never mentioned.
Oxygen is the indicator of life, and if you want to suggest an inorganic
process that can make a lot of free oxygen in an atmosphere, feel free.
If Earth is the only planet in 10^150 with life then that suggests that the
universe is fine tuned for Earthly life. If a substantial fraction of the
10^150 planets have life then that suggests the whole universe is finely
tuned for life. If the universe if not fine-tuned for life then that
suggests the number of planets with life should be around the logarithmic
middle of 10^150 or around 10^75.
That's what we might call number salad. Can you present a real argument
why any of these numbers would mean what you claim?
In conclusion, it seems there are lots of planets with life out there but
none of them will ever communicate with humans.
In conclusion? You have just denied the entire rest of your post. First
you claim that life is rare but intelligence is inevitable given life.
And to conclude you claim that life is common but intelligence is rare.
What exactly are you smoking?