Subj: Digest area51.v001.n005
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 12:18:51 -0700
To: area51@lists.best.com
-------------- BEGIN area51.v001.n005 --------------
001 - campbell@ufomind.com (Gl - Early Wind Tunnel Tests on Flying Saucers?
002 - campbell@ufomind.com (Gl - Area 51 MOA Radio Frequency (a.c.a51)
003 - mayor@tiac.net (Ken MacGr - Area 51: Views from Tikaboo
004 - campbell@ufomind.com (Gl - Re: AREA 51: scanner catches
005 - campbell@ufomind.com (Gl - Alien Activity in Spanish Fork, UT (a.c.a51)
006 - Joseph C Yasinski (jcy@U. - IRC Channel
007 - Brian Bennetts (datalus@m - Re: AREA 51: IRC Channel
008 - Brian Bennetts (datalus@m - Area-51 discussion IRC Channel...
009 - campbell@ufomind.com (Gl - Some Reminders on Mailing List Submissions
010 - "A.J. Craddock" (craddock - Alien Activity in Utah, Arizona?
+---------------------------------------------------+
| FROM THE AREA 51 MAILING LIST - A Moderated Forum |
+---------------------------------------------------+
--------------- MESSAGE area51.v001.n005.1 ---------------
From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas)
Subject: Early Wind Tunnel Tests on Flying Saucers?
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 10:24:42 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The item below is re-posted here as relevant to military
UFO cover-ups. Messages about _specific_ government documents
or organizations seem appropriate for this list (even if Area 51
isn't mentioned) since they might reflect the "pre-history" of
any UFO involvement here.
Accordingly, I have added this to the Mailing List Charter:
ALLOWABLE TOPICS:
-- Significant research (not just theories) on alleged U.S. Military
UFO cover-ups, even if Area 51 isn't directly implicated. (The UFO
specialty of this list is secret government organizations and how they
might deal with UFOs or alien information.)
-- GC
----------
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranet.ufo,sci.skeptic
Subject: Maccabee on the USAF saucer models at AMC
From: Brian Zeiler (bdzeiler@sprynet.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 1996 23:56:54 -0700
MODEL BUILDING:
A RUMOR IS PROVEN TRUE
by
Bruce Maccabee
Over the last almost 50 years there have been claims that the Air
Force built models of flying saucers for wind tunnel testing. Roughly ten
years ago I interviewed a Lt. Col. formerly at Wright-Patterson AFB who told a
story of seeing such models when he was touring WPAFB as a high school student
in the 1950's. However, there was no documentary confirmation, only a strong
suspicion that it was true since it would be a logical thing for the Air Force
to do it the AF scientists really believed that flying saucers were real.
Now we have confirmation. Recently the Army Security Agency
declassified (in July, 1994) and then released (in August, 1996) several
hundred pages of formerly secret documents generated by the Army Counter
Intelligence Corps (CIC) in 1947. The great bulk of these documents are
related to the search for information on the Horton brothers research on "flying
wing" type aircraft. This research was carried out by German aeronautical
engineers during WWII and involved the testing of an aircraft with a curved wing
(parabola shape) and no fuselage. The Air Materiel Command at Wright Field
immediately suspected that the flying saucers might be Russian technological
developments based on the German war research and so the AMC prepared a list of
Essential Elements of Information (EEI) to indicate to the CIC the types of
information needed for proper intelligence evaluation of saucer sighting
reports. ( These EEI are referred to in the Sept. 24, 1947 letter from Lt.
General Nathan Twining, Chief of AMC, to Brig. Gen. George Schulgen... see
Appendix R of the Condon Report. The EEI form the core of an Intelligence
Collection document generated by Air Force General George Schulgen's office late
in October, 1947, which was released to researchers roughly ten years ago.)
The AMC sent the EEI document to the CIC during the latter part of
October. The CIC documents just released show that the CIC acted on the EEI
immediately by sending a directive to the agents in Europe. The directive asked
the agents to locate and "discreetly" interview German scientists who had any
knowledge of the Horton brothers' work. The interesting part of the Secret
directive is contained in the following paragraph:
...............................................................
File: D-198239
28 OCtober 1947
To: (Distribution)
Inclosed EEI written at WRIGHT FIELD, Ohio, concerning flying saucers,
is forwarded for compliance therewith. The Air Materiel Command is of the
opinion that some sort of object, such as the flying saucer, did exist. At the
present time, construction models are being built for wind tunnel tests.
..............................................................
An earlier related document, dated October 20, indicates that the
models were based on "descriptions from various persons who claimed to have
sighted these objects."
These documents show how seriously some sections of Air Force
intelligence took the "GWR" (German War Research) hypothesis to explain flying
saucers. Of course, if the Roswell material were a CFS (crashed flying saucer),
SOMEONE at AMC and/or the Pentagon (top generals) would have known that the GWR
hypothesis was wrong. Hence, anyone who accepts the reality of the CFS must
assume that the "top brass" (top generals) did not tell any of their employees
at AMC or at Air Intelligence in the Pentagon (lower generals, colonels, etc.)
but, instead, let the employees proceed the best way they could to understand
the flying saucer mystery. The employees, lacking physical proof, would allow
for all reasonable possibilities to explain saucers, including the possibility
that the Russians had leapfrogged our own aeronautical research by building on
the GWR. Hence they would request the CIC to provide information on the nature
and success of the GWR.
This suggestion that the top brass didn't tell the lower brass about
"the hard evidence" seems unlikely, but it is not impossible and hence the above
mentioned documents do not refute the CFS hypothesis.
On the other hand, they do show that the AF took this much more
seriously than they let on to the press.
+------ U F O M I N D -------+
| Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com |
| AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada |
| UFOs - Gov't Secrets - Philosophy - Psychology |
| http://www.ufomind.com Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001 |
+------------------------------------------------------+
--------------- MESSAGE area51.v001.n005.2 ---------------
From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas)
Subject: Area 51 MOA Radio Frequency (a.c.a51)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:02:59 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Re-posted from a.c.a51....
Subject: Freq..for Area 51!!!
From: **NoCarrier** (a28759@comnet.ca>
Date: 1996/08/20
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.area51
Here is the Scanner Frequency for Area 51 MOA (Military Op Area)
:297.650...don't ask where i got it...:)
>>>>NoCarrier(((((
------
Subject: Area 51 Freq a hoax?
From: root@atlas.infopta.co.za (root)
Date: 1996/09/09
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.area51
A point to ponder:
If A51 is so secret , it wouldn't be by making public broadcasts,
instead they give out a 'staged' frequency that would keep their
assets protected. If they will go through the trouble of *not*
mapping Area 51 , they would certainly go to the extent of fooling
radio frequencies. In that way ppl won't look further. In other
words , the radio freq we cross on the Net that indicates communi-
cation freq from A51 , isn't the real mccoy. Surely they have other
means of comms.
------
Subject: Re: Area 51 Freq a hoax?
From: psygreg@u.washington.edu (Greg Gallacci)
Date: 1996/09/09
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.area51
Hi,
Well, back in my ole Army days, keeping the frequencies secret was
absolutley no concern, because the only radio traffic we used was
encrytped.
You may hear this on short-wave as a droning, power-saw sort of
sound.
To think that Area 51's radio traffic would not be secured through
cyprtography is naive.
Assuming there even is a secret anything at area 51.
Even so, some radio chatter would come from there 'in the clear',
but other than flight control operations or other trivial tasks, all commo
in and out is going to be well scrambled.
Or, even better, frequency-skipped.
That is to say that the transmitter broadcasts on one frequecny
for about 1/50 of a second, then skips to another, and then another
frequency continuously.
The reciever is also skipping, keeping in time with the
transmitter.
If the frequencies used are all over the VHF/UHF bands, it may not
even be possible to detect the transmitter!
Monitoring any one frequency range will only give the occasional
pop or squeel, not enough to get a directional fix on.
More likely, commo in and out is via cable, fibre-optic, or line
of sight microwave.
And all of it encrypted.
So, someone may have the radio freqs. for some walkie-talkies, or
a jeep or two, but not anything important.
IMHO, of course.
Greg Gallacci
-----
From: Glenn Campbell
The Dreamland Control frequency (apparently the Dreamland MOA) used to
be on 261.1
I often heard the name "Dreamland" used on this freq, but this was about
three years ago, before significant Area 51 publicity. I haven't had
time to listen to the scanner much since then. They almost certainly
aren't using the name "Dreamland" anymore, but the freq could still be
in use.
In my experience, all aviation control traffic is in the clear. I've
never encountered encrypted aviation traffic -- but the pilots can speak
cryptically and change call signs between freqs. (Just a few grunts is
all it take for clearance to Groom Lake since there is little other traffic.)
In my opinion, there is a lot of data in the air around Area 51
that no one has ever collected. It takes time, though, and you need
to camp out in a location nearly in line of sight with the base, like
Tikaboo Peak or the hills near Hancock Summit. I think if a competent
radio monitor camped out on Tikaboo for a few days, he'd find out a lot
about base operations.
Glenn
For other frequency threads, see DejaNews...
http://www.dejanews.com/forms/dnq.html
... searching for "Area 51 Freq"
--------------- MESSAGE area51.v001.n005.3 ---------------
From: mayor@tiac.net (Ken MacGray)
Subject: Area 51: Views from Tikaboo
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 21:03:43 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Several new images have been added to my Area 51 Web site, including some
spectacular shots of the secret Groom Lake base taken this past July by the
intrepid reporter known only as Stargazer... These images can be found
directly at http://www.tiac.net/users/mayor/a51/stargazer.html
From his own description:
Four photos taken of Area 51 from South to North end as seen from atop
Tikaboo Peak, NV (elevation:~7,900') on the AM of 20 Jul 96. Distance from
peak to Area 51 was ~25 miles and area was West of Tikaboo Peak. Photos
taken using a 80mm f/10 (800mm focal length), Bausch & Lomb mirrored lens
with an Olympus OM-88 camera using AMERICAN Brand ASA 100 Color Print Film.
The east sun angle provided "best" view of area structures. Pretty good
details visible considering 25 mile distance! Note the details on the "Big
Hangar" on A-51 Shot#2 (Middle -North)
Night time photos of Area 51 taken on the PM of 19 Jul 96 from atop Tikaboo
Peak. Same equipment was used. Both photos are centered on the "Big Hangar"
area noted on Area 51 20 Jul 96 Shot #2. Not much night time activity was
present that night and stayed that way well into the early AM of next day.
Right photo: Daytime photo shows STARGAZER taking shots of Area 51 from
atop Tikaboo Peak on 19 Jul 96. Shows telephoto lens used to take all
shots. A beautiful, beyond words view of the desert floor below is seen in
the background.
=============================================================
Ken MacGray, Administrator - Virtual Village BBS
Central Massachusetts' Premier Online Service
508-368-4222 - email:mayor@tiac.net - http://www.tiac.net/users/mayor
Area 51 Images/Lore/News: http://www.tiac.net/users/mayor/a51/a51.html
=============================================================
--------------- MESSAGE area51.v001.n005.4 ---------------
From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) (by way of
tonydinkel@clubnet.net (Tony Dinkel))
Subject: Re: AREA 51: scanner catches
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:54:52 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just with some casual searching while driving hwy 375, I ended up with
several hits in the clear like:
"Just leaving Las Vegas, see you in about 2 hours." FM mode, mil uhf
repeater output.
And, somewhere up in the high end of the civil aircraft band I found IRIG
time code in AM mode running continuously, on a weekend. This is used as a
time reference for data recorders and range timing. Its quite possibly
driven by the master clock for the entire range. I wonder if they only
turn it on when the range is in use. If so, it could be used as a beacon
to indicate when to watch. There were rumbles in the distance from what I
believed to be supersonic aircraft. My wife and I sighted 3 triangular
shapes in tight formation but they were out of sight before the camcorder
got up to speed.
I will try to find my notes on these freqs if anyone is interested.
TD
--------------- MESSAGE area51.v001.n005.5 ---------------
From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas)
Subject: Alien Activity in Spanish Fork, UT (a.c.a51)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:28:32 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
[Posted to the A51 mailing list because UT, AZ and the CA Mojave are
part of our "territory." -- GC]
Subject: Alien activity
From: Steven Childs (stevec44@itsnet.com>
Date: 1996/09/09
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.area51
The new place of transmission is in western distributing. A large
warehouse in the mouth of Spanish fork canyon. Spanish Fork UT. This
is what they told me.
-----
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.area51
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:19:43 -0700
From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas)
Subject: Re: Alien activity
In article (323472EE.659A@itsnet.com>, Steven Childs (stevec44@itsnet.com>
wrote:
> --
> The new place of transmission is in western distributing. A large
> warehouse in the mouth of Spanish fork canyon. Spanish Fork UT. This
> is what they told me.
Well, that certainly sounds specific, but what the hell are you talking
about?
Transmission of what? Who are "they" and why did they communicate
with you? Are you saying that the aliens are operating out of a
Western Distributing warehouse at the mouth of a canyon in Spanish
Fork, Utah?
What I like about this message is that the location is specific
enough to check out. There can't be many warehouses at the mouth
of canyons in Spanish Fork. First thing to do is knock on the door
and say, "You got any aliens in there?"
Road trip!!!!!
Glenn
-----
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:19:43 -0600
From: Bill Swearingen (BSWEARIN@folio.com>
To: campbell@ufomind.com
Subject: Re: Alien activity
Mime-Version: 1.0
I live in Spanish Fork, Utah and what is being discussed is the FingerHut
Manufacturing plant. Fingerhut is one of those mail order catalog
companies that produce cute little items for direct sale from the
manufacturing facility. I haven't seen any strange lights or activity
except that you don't see much activity at all. So whatever the guy is
talking about, he'd better be more specific before we get inundated with
people in fatigues and night vision scopes infesting the hills surrounding
the plant and scaring off all our game.
Bill Swearingen
-----
Ah, Fingerhut! I've always been suspicious of that company.
I've never found _anything_ worth buying in their catalog, so
how do they support themselves? And what does the name mean -
Fingerhut?
Clearly more research is needed.
GC
--------------- MESSAGE area51.v001.n005.6 ---------------
From: Joseph C Yasinski (jcy@U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject:
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:37:28 -0700 (MST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I was wondering if anyone was interested in starting an irc
channel dedicated to the discussion of area 51 and various topics related
to the subject. I'm not sure how many of you are familiar to how irc
works, but if you have a provider. Not only can we limit the knowledge of
such a channel, but we can boot anyone who is particularly annoying or has
nothing to say. Although I don't think interest is high enough to keep
the channel manned constantly, we can set a specific time each week and
have a "conference call" so to speak. I think it would be interesting if
we could all speak freely and in real time rather than by mail. irc is
also available to on every server so the channel are universal. This
allows people on goodnet to talk to someone on gnn. Anyway, replies to
this forum or my mailbox would be appreciated.
Joe Yasinski
"How do you shoot the devil in the back..What if you miss?"
Joseph C Yasinski jcy@U.Arizona.EDU
--------------- MESSAGE area51.v001.n005.7 ---------------
From: Brian Bennetts (datalus@mail.pacificnet.net>
Subject: Re: AREA 51:
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:04:03 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 03:37 PM 9/11/96 -0700, Joseph C Yasinski wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone was interested in starting an irc
>channel dedicated to the discussion of area 51 and various topics related
>to the subject. I'm not sure how many of you are familiar to how irc
>works, but if you have a provider
Well, there are many channels out there already, on EFnet there's #ufo,
#art_bell, and undernet has those, as well as #visitations, and
#devils_tower (Glenn knows that one i'm sure,) However, I can see being room
for another channel where people could discuss the issues, etcetera...
May I recommend an alternative net, one that offers good services, personal
nick registration (so people can't steal your nick> and is virtually "Lagless"
the net is anothernet, the servers (that I know of> are neato.org, and
irc.phonet.com... if the response is great enough, I'd be happy to set up
the channel there since it only takes a minute or two.
Brian C. Bennetts - VP Music Trackers International
datalus@pacificnet.net OR daedalus@usa.net
Apology is Policy
--------------- MESSAGE area51.v001.n005.8 ---------------
From: Brian Bennetts (datalus@mail.pacificnet.net>
Subject: Area-51 discussion IRC Channel...
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 22:50:41 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Notice:
the IRC channel #area-51 has been created, and available for public use.
it is located on Anothernet...
The servers to access Anothernet are: neato.org
irc.phonet.com
sunrise.org
dragon.org
Once connected, join channel #area-51
the advantages of using Anothernet, include Less lag than EFnet and Undernet
servers, Nickname Registration - so that you can have your own nick that no
one else can pose as you under, and chanserv registration, so the channel is
monitored by chanserv, and channel take overs are far less likely than on
EFnet or undernet.
If you have any other questions, please email me directly, so as not to
get them lost on the mail list...
my email is
datalus@pacificnet.net
Thanks, and hope to see you there.
Brian C. Bennetts - VP Music Trackers International
datalus@pacificnet.net OR daedalus@usa.net
Apology is Policy
Brian C. Bennetts - VP Music Trackers International
datalus@pacificnet.net OR daedalus@usa.net
Apology is Policy
--------------- MESSAGE area51.v001.n005.9 ---------------
From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas)
Subject: Some Reminders on Mailing List Submissions
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:32:57 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
When you submit a message to this list, please remember....
1) Be sure you have a meaningful Subject: line.
-- If you send a message without a subject line, or with a subject
line that doesn't mean anything (like "Aliens") the message will
be returned to you for a subject to be added.
The subject line should describe as clearly as possible what the
message is about, enough to let a reader know whether the message
pertains to them.
2) Please quote only a _portion_ of the message you are responding
to, not the whole message. Usually 3-4 lines is sufficient to cue
people in to what you are replying to.
-- Several people have submitted messages with a huge quoted
portion and only a few lines of response at the end. This makes
it difficult for readers to find your response. If you send
too much quoted material, the message will be sent back to you
for editing.
-- Please remember that the moderator cannot edit messages,
only return them for you to edit. This can result
in a delay of many hours.
-- Enforcing these restrictions against empty subject lines and
too much quoting will help keep the list readable.
ALSO --
3) The mailer automatically adds "AREA 51:" to the subject line
for every message. When you reply to a message, please remove
"AREA 51:" from the subject line, so the mailer can add it on
again correctly.
-- This is a minor problem, and we won't reject messages because
of it, but the title looks better when "AREA 51:" is in the right
position.
4) Unsubscribe messages must go to area51-request@lists.best.com
5) Private conversations should be conducted by regular email.
Some responses are better sent directly to the author rather than
to the list. Use this list only for reasonably substantial
statements you want everyone else to know about.
Acting Moderator
--------------- MESSAGE area51.v001.n005.10 ---------------
From: "A.J. Craddock" (craddock@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Alien Activity in Utah, Arizona?
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:56:04 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>>[Posted to the A51 mailing list because UT, AZ and the CA Mojave are
>>part of our "territory." -- GC]
>>
>>Subject: Alien activity
>>From: Steven Childs (stevec44@itsnet.com>
>>Date: 1996/09/09
>>Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.area51
>>
>>
>> The new place of transmission is in western distributing. A large
>>warehouse in the mouth of Spanish fork canyon. Spanish Fork UT. This
>>is what they told me
>>
SNIP
>>
>From: Bill Swearingen (BSWEARIN@folio.com>
>
>>
>>I live in Spanish Fork, Utah and what is being discussed is the FingerHut
>>Manufacturing plant.
SNIP
>>
>>Bill Swearingen
>>
SNIP
>>
>>
Some of the above may be not insignificant. Some time ago I heard from Dr.
Steven Greer, CSETI founder, who does have excellent connections, that it
was his opinion that most of the really sensitive alien stuff had now been
moved to a base in Arizona, or a new base in Utah that was accessible only
by air. The name of the Arizona base was Camp Something, the Something
being an Indian name that I cannot remember, but which I will find out again
in due course.
I received interesting verification of this while in England this summer, as
the BBC (in what must have been the equivalent of their sweeps week) were
touting an expose during one of their upcoming TV news shows about the
Arizona base where the alien detritus was stored. Finally the clip aired,
and it was just warmed over Area 51 Nevada stuff that looked as though it
had been put together in a hurry from central files and contained nothing
that we didn't know already. Now the BBC do not make those kind of
geographical factual mistakes (confusing Arizona with Nevada).
But I do know that when they are slapped with what is known in the UK as a
D-notice by the Security Services, the plug gets pulled immediately.
I witnessed this first hand last year when watching a special over there
about the Mina, Arkansas drugs for contra arms scandal. The BBC had built
the show up and were advertising a new eyewitness to the events (a State
Trooper I believe) who was going to provide testimony that would link
Clinton with the whole deal, and who, they said, could not give this
testimony on camera in the States. It was a one hour show, and they brought
him on about 15 minutes before the end of the show for the big finale. The
screen immediately faded to the equivalent of "Do not adjust your set, we
have technical problems", and stayed that way till the end of the show.
This was on prime time evening TV, and I checked the newspapers the next day
for comments about this incredible last minute censoring, and there was not
one word about it in any newspaper. It was amazing.
My guts tell me that this is also what happened with the BBC's Area 51
broadcast, that they had some revelations they were going to make about the
Arizona Base, and when the boys in the band heard the Arizona teaser they
made the BBC just run the generic Area 51 product.
BTW I ran a Web and Usenet search, but couldn't find the Arizona Camp name.
Tony Craddock
>
--------------- END area51.v001.n005 ---------------
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