01 - Bill Bailey <billsf@earth - What Do You Think? 02 - campbell@ufomind.com (Gl - Miscelanea: Digest Archives, Laughlin Loonfest, Area 12 03 - mayor@tiac.net (Ken MacGr - Credible Source? 04 - campbell@ufomind.com (Gl - Re: CSICOP Claims Copyright, Privacy Violations (Fudd vs. Bunn 05 - Joseph C Yasinski <jcy@U. - Re: AREA 51: Credible Source? 06 - "Donald Shevlin" <Donnie_ - In reference to Bill Bailey questions 07 - Richard Grainger <richg@i - Re: AREA 51: In reference to Bill Bailey questions 08 - Richard Grainger <richg@i - TriangulationRe: AREA 51: In reference to Bill Bailey question 09 - Shawn McSwain <af181@free - stop subscribe 10 - campbell@ufomind.com (Gl - Possible New Planet in Zeta Reticuli! 11 - campbell@ufomind.com (Gl - Re: Area 51 Diversion 12 - Joe LeSesne <raver187@m-n - Re: Possible New Planet in Zeta Reticuli! Index
From: Bill Bailey <billsf@earthlink.net> Subject: What Do You Think? Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 11:26:34 -0700 To the esteemed members of this list: A question has arisen for me the last few days, thus I thought I'd go ahead and post it. Hopefully, it will pass Glenn's scrutiny!! It occurs to me, that Area 51/S4 may be one of the great mysteries of our time. There is probably more speculation and misinformation surrounding activities in this region, than there is sold verifiable fact. Lack of credible first-hand accounts and real hard core evidence compound this. Some of it borders on the truly fantastical, but may be entirely real. Having said that, my question is, what do you think is really going on out at Area 51??? Perhaps this is moot, but I think not. There could be a wide range of views. I realized based on the amount of information I've sifted through, I had drawn my own personal conclusions regarding this great mystery. I'm sure everyone has gone through the same thing. I also keep in mind, that where there is a lack of information surrounding any event, people will create their own. I'm not so concerned with people substantiating their views. Merely subjective opinions on the subject. I think this could be a fascinating exercise. Area 51: What's really out there? What's really going on? Regards, Bill Message #1
From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Subject: Miscelanea: Digest Archives, Laughlin Loonfest, Area 12 Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 16:42:13 -0700 [Tidbits from my hard drive and email queue....] NEW DIGEST ARCHIVE FORMAT I have written new programming for the Area 51 Mailing List Archive. Digests are now automatically converted into a more attractive and accessible format. See http://www.ufomind.com/area51/list/arc/ The archive means that you don't really need to subscribe to this list to take advantage of it. Instead you can just look in on the archive page occasionally. Among the programming changes.... -- All URLs mentioned in messages should work -- Quoted material, preceded by >, shows up in red ------ LAUGHLIN LOONFEST The former Mesquite Loonfest has moved to Laughlin this year... JAN 18-24, 1997 6TH ANNUAL INTERNATIONAL UFO CONGRESS CONVENTION Scheduled for Gold River Resort in Lauglin, NV. Phone/Fax (303)543-9443 If anyone has more info or a URL, they should send it to the list. (I'm not a Loonfest attendee myself. At UFO conferences in in general, there's far too much rubbish to make the few interesting tidbits worthwhile. I don't see how a conference can give me anything I can't get on the net -- or from someone reporting on the conference.) ------- [From a.c.a51...] From: davistm@aol.com (DavisTM) Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.area51 Subject: Re: Area 51 and Area 12? Date: 15 Sep 1996 02:46:31 -0400 stmartin@eden.com wrote: >Where is Area 12? What is Area 12? Why is Area 12? How is Area 12? >When is Area 12? Who is Area 12? From the Draft Nevada Test Site Environmental Impact Statement. Vol. 1, chapter 4, p. 18-19: "Area 12 -- This area, within the Nuclear or High Explosive Test Zone, occupies 104 km^2 (40 mi^2) at the northern boundary of the NTS known as Rainier Mesa. No atmospheric tests were conducted at this lcoation. Rainier Mesa was the site of the nation's first fully contained underground nuclear detonation in the fall of 1957. Of the 61 underground nuclear tests carried out in Area 12 between late 1957 and the fall of 1992, only 2 were detonated in drilled holes, whereas all of the others were detonated in mined tunnels. "Today, there are a number of tunnels mined into Rainier Mesa, within which most DoD horizontal line-of-sight exposure experiments were conducted. In particular, N-, P-, and T-Tunnel complexes were extensively developed during the past several decades. N-Tunnel was also the location for a Non-prolifieration Experiment, detonated in September 1993; this experiment involved 1.3x10^6 kg (2.9x10^6 lb) of conventional high explosives. The DoD currently operates a high-explosives research and development tunnel in Area 12. This reusable test bed supports programs involving the detonation of conventional or prototype explosives and munitions. "The Area 12 camp was used to support operations in the northern region of the NTS. The camp includes housing and feeding facilities; other support structures include a major maintenance building, various craft and repair shops, a first aid facility, and a supply depot. The camp is currently closed." Theran Davis davistm@aol.com Message #2
From: mayor@tiac.net (Ken MacGray) Subject: Credible Source? Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 22:07:11 -0400 I've been corresponding with an anonymous source over the last few days, who claims to have information about the scientists who work at and the activities that go on at our secret base. My first reaction was that this is some sort of bonehead playing a joke... However, stranger things have happened. Any advice on how to proceed with questioning this person to find out whether or not he/she is credible? The skeptic in me says this one's as fruity as a loop, but then again... A sampling of the letters I've received from him/her are as follows: --------------- From: dm35929@academia.swt.edu Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 18:51:46 -0700 Subject: ... To: mayor@tiac.net MIME-version: 1.0 I'll keep this simple...I'd like to help. --------------- From: dm35929@academia.swt.edu Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 19:03:54 -0700 Subject: (no subject) To: mayor@tiac.net MIME-version: 1.0 You'll have to forgive me for this, but it just struck me as odd, how can you or your "associates" get so close to so many wonderful pictures on so many "chance" occasions? Why are you so brazen as to put your picture to identify yourself with when it's fairly safe to assume that the gov. isn't happy with this Area 51 explosion, and they'll more than likely be monitoring these websites? To be blunt, this is either a website with sloppy skills in stealth, or this website is just a device used to lure in overexcited individuals so they may be catagorized such as myself. Think "1984," unrestrained trust led to the main characters' death. I should like more info about the way this operation is run before I can help you. --------------- From: DM35929@swt.edu Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 20:41:02 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: (no subject) To: mayor@tiac.net Organization: Southwest Texas State University MIME-version: 1.0 As for signing with my real name, I have no choice in the matter, I was assigned this name by my net server and it can't be changed. Second, what of the "lake" area. What significance has it, and what questions were you refering to that I could answer myself if I were familiar with this area? Mean you the many opportunites to take pictures; true...then it would be possible, but I'm still cautious. I'm willing to help, but I don't want to be placed on some F.B.I. computer listing me a U.F.O. activist that could pose a threat to national security. I'd liked to reassured that I'll be safe, talk to me more about this, tell me what you think. --------------- From: DM35929@swt.edu Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:05:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: (no subject) To: mayor@tiac.net Organization: Southwest Texas State University MIME-version: 1.0 If I'm so paranoid, then explain to me the reason why "Stargazer" is unwilling to publish his/her real name? He/she was on PUBLIC land when he/she took the picture, what is there to fear if the government can't do anything. Why are you so curious as to my name? I may not know much about your lake area, but I do know a great many other things about Area 51, and the scientists who work there. Hundreds of scientists around the world who have stepped forward about research centers like Area 51 and that have worked for their respective governments in such research centers, are suddenly commiting suicide, or they become innocent murder victims. I'm willing to help, but not if it's going to get me killed, if you're putting together some sloppy operation, I don't want to be involved, if I can be assured as to my protection, then we can do business. Now, you're probably wondering "how in the world does this guy expect me trust him?" Well, it's obvious, look at all the precautions I'm taking. ============================================================= Ken MacGray, Administrator - Virtual Village BBS Central Massachusetts' Premier Online Service 508-368-4222 - email:mayor@tiac.net - http://www.tiac.net/users/mayor Area 51 Images/Lore/News: http://www.tiac.net/users/mayor/a51/a51.html ============================================================= Message #3
From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell) Subject: Re: CSICOP Claims Copyright, Privacy Violations (Fudd vs. Bunny) LONG Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 20:21:30 -0700 The CSICOP incident has prompted an "Existential Essay on Copyright Infringement," in which we explain our motives. Find it at http://www.ufomind.com/area51/articles/policy/ Excerpt: Some people say that the law, as written and literally interpreted, must never be disobeyed. If the speed limit is 40 miles per hour, you must never go 41. We, however, are not so rigid -- or so irresponsible! Although we use the law as a guide, that does not absolve us of the need for intelligent decision making. To every situation, we must apply a test of reasonableness, based not just on law but on the actual circumstances and probable results of our actions. We must examine our own motives and the motives of those who raised the protest, because the same act can be good or evil depending on why it is done. We try to figure out what is "right" in a given circumstance -- right being a conclusion that takes in all the conflicting issues, including the law and all the information available to us at the time. If the best balance of factors, after analysis, requires us to disobey the letter of the law, then the we will proceed to do so without regret. We will blatantly xerox, scan and re-type -- knowing the possible consequences and accepting full responsibility for our actions. +------------------------------------------------------+ | Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com | | AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada | | For latest see... http://www.ufomind.com/new/current | | Please cc newsgroup responses to email address above | +------------------------------------------------------+ Message #4
From: Joseph C Yasinski <jcy@U.Arizona.EDU> Subject: Re: AREA 51: Credible Source? Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:23:02 -0700 (MST) First of all, if this guy was telling the truth you probably blew it by posting all the messages he sent you. If by some miracle he is still talking to you, then humor him to the point where he trusts you. If he is full of crap, he will go away. If he is telling the truth, promise him anything he wants(keep your promises) and see what it is he has. Joe "How do you shoot the devil in the back..What if you miss?" Joseph C Yasinski jcy@U.Arizona.EDU Message #5
From: "Donald Shevlin" <Donnie_Shevlin@msn.com> Subject: In reference to Bill Bailey questions Date: Fri, 20 Sep 96 17:54:57 UT I'm afraid to say that, with all the eyes and ears out there in Rachel that surely the government has moved it's most secret operations out of that area. I hate to speculate this but the later is clear. A hot spot like A51 is most likely now just an attention getter to distract those from locating the "new area". A secluded island in the South Pacific is a likely candidate for stealth operations. Now, I for one, do not want to rain on anybody's parade. But If they're conducting any type of magnetic flux test out there, this would register on a simple hand held compass. And if four people were to say, stand at four points around the "base" during one of their magnetic test, then they should be able to pin point the approximate location with again compasses. Has this ever been tried? Other stories at the base include Lazar. I, for one, do not believe in Lazar. If he were one of the many that had worked out there, and he has leaked a great deal of information, then he would be dead now. The forces behind this are in the very least efficient. For a man who claims to know as much as he, would surely be pushing daisies by now. What are the facts at the present? What activities are conducted at the base that we are aware of at this time? And for the Cray systems, I see the only relevant thing to come out of this is conclusive proof for the court in the case of Frost and Turley that the base does in fact exsist. Or, is there something that I'm missing? Doing my whale impersonation and spouting off Donnie ( I did not intend to "flame") Message #6
From: Richard Grainger <richg@innotts.co.uk> Subject: Re: AREA 51: In reference to Bill Bailey questions Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 19:35:17 +0100 Donald Shevlin wrote: >And if four people were to say, stand at four points >around the "base" during one of their magnetic test, then they should be able >to pin point the approximate location with again compasses. If you are talking about triangulation, then you would in fact only need three people with compasses, although they would need to be very far apart around the "base" area for any kind of accuracy to be obtained. Would this be possible with the geography of the area? R.G. /| |\ /| |\ ============================ / \ | | / \========================== | \ / \ / | | Richard Grainger | | richg@innotts.co.uk | \ / \ / \ / ============================ \ | \ / | /============================ \| \/ |/ Message #7
From: Richard Grainger <richg@innotts.co.uk> Subject: TriangulationRe: AREA 51: In reference to Bill Bailey questions Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 22:12:02 +0100 I wrote: >> If you are talking about triangulation, then you would in fact only need >> three people with compasses, although they would need to be very far apart >> around the "base" area for any kind of accuracy to be obtained. Would this >> be possible with the geography of the area? Tuker Balch wrote: >You only need two. Ah yes, my mistake. Of course the "base" acts as the third point of triangulation so you only need two people with compasses to act as the other two points. R.G. /| |\ /| |\ ============================ / \ | | / \========================== | \ / \ / | | Richard Grainger | | richg@innotts.co.uk | \ / \ / \ / ============================ \ | \ / | /============================ \| \/ |/ Message #8
From: Shawn McSwain <af181@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: stop subscribe Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 08:44:08 -0400 (EDT) stop subscirbe Message #9
From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas) Subject: Possible New Planet in Zeta Reticuli! Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 07:25:47 -0700 Can this be real? Correspondent raver187@m-net.arbornet.org just alerted us to this otherwise obscure astronomical news item... Both Bob Lazar and Jarod 2 claim that the little gray guys come from Zeta Reticuli, a star system supposedly visible from the southern hemisphere. Also, the Betty Hill star map was is said to have been matched with Zeta Reticuli in 1970. Now astronomers report a possible planet there. See the Extra Solar Planets Encyclopedia at http://www.obspm.fr/planets Do we have an astronomer in the house? Can someone examine the data on the web site and tell us what it means? My own first impression: Any planet big enough to be detected by astronomers at this point is a massive, Jupiter-like thug with little possibility of supporting life. Still, it suggests there might be others, and we couldn't ask for planets in a more interesting place. What does "2" mean in "zeta2"? Didn't Lazar specify a number like this? Given that astronomers seem to be finding quite a few planets these days (9 confirmed so far), what is the probability - given all those billion, billion stars, etc. - of finding one right where we want it? Even though the planet is "unconfirmed," maybe Lazar's stock has just gone up a half a point. Oh, and boron... buy boron! The web site includes this data.... ----- Update: 20 September 1996 latest news: * From the U. Texas Web site: Possible new planet (zeta2 Ret) discovered by Cochran & Hatzes * New planet to be announced by Cochran et al. at the DPS meeting (23 Oct. 1996) * still doubts about Lalande 21185 planets * COMPLEX Report on ExNPS ----- http://www.obspm.fr/departement/darc/planets/HR1010.html ----- Notes for HR1010 = zeta2 Ret = HD20807 by Jean Schneider update: 19 September 1996 The planet(s): * Detection method: Radial velocity at ESO The star: * Distance: * Spectral type: G1V * Apparent magnitude:V = 5.24 * Absolute luminosity: * Coordinates (2000): RA = 03 18 03.22, DEC = -62 30 55.7 * More data: + Basic Data (from simbad ) + Most recent refs. (from ADS; enter `HR1010' in the `objects' field) ----- FROM: http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simq.pl?ident=@31256,5&name=HD+20807 ----- SIMBAD database : Basic data and identifiers for the object HD 20807 Type: High proper-motion Star Coord 1950.0 = 03 17 07.40 -62 41 47.8 mb, mv = 5.84 5.24 Coord 2000.0 = 03 18 03.22 -62 30 55.7 sp type = G1V gal = 279.00 -47.23 pm = +1.332 [ 7] +0.658 [ 7] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HD 20807 GEN# +1.00020807 SKY# 4958 SAO 248774 UBV M 9467 Ci 20 226 GC 3975 N30 680 LHS 172 CPD-62 265 * zet02 Ret PLX 705 GJ 138 CPC 20.1 685 GCRV 1842 HR 1010 IDS 03160-6253 A JP11 777 UBV 3233 LFT 276 LPM 148 LTT 1576 PM 03171-6242 PPM 353441 CCDM J03180-6232A HIC 15371 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Measurements: SAO: 1 UBV: 6 pos: 2 MK:13 JP11: 1 PLX: 5 GCRV: 5 uvby: 5 Hbet: 4 PM: 4 IUE: 3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ References: 96 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ +------ U F O M I N D -------+ | Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com | | AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada | | UFOs - Gov't Secrets - Philosophy - Psychology | | http://www.ufomind.com Box 448, Rachel, NV 89001 | +------------------------------------------------------+ Message #10
From: campbell@ufomind.com (Glenn Campbell) Subject: Re: Area 51 Diversion Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 07:54:22 -0700 On alt.conspiracy.area51, Tom Furnivall <tom.furnivall@dial.pipex.com> wrote: > I think that Area 51 has been exposed to the public to draw them away > from other more 'top secret' Air Force Bases, where the real secret stuff > is going on. Indeed a fine opinion, expressed on this newsgroup for about the 1000th time. Question: What other 'top secret" Air Force bases are there? -- that are so obvious that public attention would be drawn to them if Area 51 wasn't doing it. Doesn't the Area 51 media frenzy draw _everyone's_ attention to _all_ secret bases? But maybe that's what the New World Order really wants... to focus people on these secret bases to draw attention away from the media itself, where the real manipulation is occurring. Fiendishly clever they are. Glenn +------------------------------------------------------+ | Glenn Campbell campbell@ufomind.com | | AREA 51 RESEARCH CENTER - Las Vegas & Rachel, Nevada | | For latest see... http://www.ufomind.com/new/current | | Please cc newsgroup responses to email address above | +------------------------------------------------------+ Message #11
From: Joe LeSesne <raver187@m-net.arbornet.org> Subject: Re: Possible New Planet in Zeta Reticuli! Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 17:59:13 -0400 (EDT) I'm not an astronomer but I play one on TV. Actually I took an astronomy course in college and still have my books. On Sun, 22 Sep 1996, Glenn Campbell, Las Vegas wrote: > What does "2" mean in "zeta2"? The 2 means it is one of the two stars that make up Zeta Reticuli. At one time I believe they were designated Zeta Reticuli A and B but since have been redesignated as Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli. Why? not sure but it may have to do with the fact that they make up a VERY wide binary system. (It is estimated that they are in a 100,000 year orbit about a common center of gravity meaning each star, Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 could have its own family of planets. -Burnam's Celestial Handbook) > Didn't Lazar specify a number like this? Yes. As did "Falcon" on the TV program UFO Cover Up Live in 1988. They grays suposedly hail from the 4th planet of Zeta 2 Reticuli (Reticulum 4). This was stated by Lazar, but Falcon said on UFO Cover-up that they came from the 3rd planet nopt the 4th. Now this big quarter of a jupiter mass planet is in an orbit about Zeta 2 Reticuli which lasts 18.9 days and has a semi-major axis of 0.14 Astronomical Units. For comparison Mercury has a semi-major axis of 0.39 Astronomical Units (AU) [1.00 Astronomical Units = the distance of between the earth and the sun, about 93 million miles) Now assuming that this newly discovered planet is the closest one to Zeta 2 Ret (it's hard to imagine a closer one) then following Bode's Law (the law which states each planet is about twice the distance from it's sun as its inner neighboor) Reticulum 2 should be at 0.28 AU, Reticulum 3 should be at 0.56 AU and INTERESTINGLY Recticulum 4 would be at 1.12 AU in between the Earth's 1.00 AU and Mars's 1.52 AU, well withing the lifezone of a G class star! Maybe Lazar, and Jayrod are right after all and perhaps Falcon was planting disinformation. > Given that astronomers seem to finding quite a few planets > these days (9 confirmed so far), what is the probability - given all > those billion, billion star, etc. - of finding one right where we > want it? Hard to say, I will say that it is very telling the first star to be found with a planet in the southern hemisphere was Zeta 2 Reticuli. This *might* mean that it was one of the first searched meaning it was given priority. There are alot of other starts which could have been searched for planets in the Southern Hemisphere. joe Message #12
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Created: 23 Sep 1996