UFO UpDates Mailing List
From: jvif@spacelab.net (John Velez)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 15:58:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:49:49 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever'
Reply to Dennis Stacy.....
>> and no quotes,= John Velez
> = Dennis
>Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:37:05 -0600 (CST)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: 'The Most Authentic Alien Image Ever'
>
>At 02:37 AM 12/10/96 -0500, John Velez wrote:
>
>>Hi Dennis,
>>Until now I had given you credit for being an intelligent guy. Abortion
>>guilt anxiety complex?! If you weren't serious I'd be laughing my ass
>>>>off. I've got news for you, I think that it would be easier for an
>>>>ductions before they'd buy into your "fetal infanticide/guilt theory.
>>Of >>all the convoluted crap that's ever been concocted to explain
>>abductions >>yours is a real prize winner. Gotta give you credit for
>>creativity >>though.
>Let me give you some credit, too, John. While expressing considerable
>indignation and ridicule, you express not the least interest or curiousity
>in my hypothesis as originally presented. Therefore I won't be sending you
>>a copy, as in why bother?
Dennis, I play chess. And even though I have the option at each turn to
select from any given number of moves, "some of them" are obviously wrong
and exclude themselves. Your "theory", speaking as an experiencer, falls
into that category. It just doesn't apply Dennis. You don't have to stick
your head into a barrel of bad pork to know that it stinks.
>>O-K Dennis, if I'm reading this right,... because we all were involved in
>>some way with the abortion of an unborn child,... our guilt then causes
>>>>us to hallucinate little grey fetuses that kidnap us in the night,...
>>>>perform medical and other procedures,... leave visible marks, scars,
>>and >>in some cases ground trace evidence,... and then disappear into the
>>night >>on flying saucers.
>Are you saying that all of the above elements are typical? Most of Mack's
>cases don't report anything that could be interpreted as a classical
>>"flying saucer"--which is part of the problem.
Keerist Dennis, read my question carefully. And yes, items such as the
paralysis, the beings involved, the proceedures, and the craft (are)
commonly and widely reported. No, not in all cases, but in (enough of them)
my own included, for me to use them in a "generic" example. Don't tell me
that you're just finding out that there is a "pattern" to all of this?
>>Why don't you just say that you think we're all nuts. Fetal infanticidal/
>>guilt/common hallucination,....sounds freaking nuts to me. Where on Gods
>>good earth did you come up with this 'abortion' of a theory. (Pun >>intended)
>The answer here is exceedingly simple: Because I don't think you are all
>nuts, nor did I insinutate anything resembling same in my brief public
>remarks to Greg Sandow or in the theory itself. The theory came about not
>>to specifically explain your experience, or that of Whitley Streiber, but
>>in an honest attempt to address the sheer number of reports suggested by
>>the flawed Roper Report, which holds that more than four million
>Americans >alone have been abducted and subjected to the same experience
>you report. >In an article in Fate magazine ("Millions of Americans
>Abucted?", >September 1992), I showed why those numbers could not stand up
>under >scrutiny, as have many others since.
Dennis if you want to expose the flaws in a survey then do that. But to
suggest that the abductions could be explained away with something as
convoluted as fetal/infanticide/guilt is simplistic and doesn't begin to
acknowledge or address the (other) attendant phenomena, which I have
already listed here, connected to the abduction experience. You can't be
selective as to which part of the reports you are going to address. If
you're going to deal with an explanation of "abductions" the physical
components MUST BE taken into account. There are too many folks out there
with marks and scars on their bodys that appear overnight,...to dismiss it
ALL as misinterpretation or a psychological delusion is unfair to those
courageous enough to come forward and report it, and just poor science.
The theory has to fit the phenomena not the other way around.
>>Hey Dennis wanna hear a really far out theory? We're telling the truth!
>You're telling the truth as you perceive it...
Yes, I am, and your point is...?
>No blame, but on a good day even Whitley Streiber admits that he doesn't
>>have the foggiest notion of what is going on.
As far as "alien intentions and motivations" go yes! I agree, I have no
idea. As far as the "existence" of these beings goes, of that I personally
have no doubt. When they wake you in the middle of the night and take you
out of your house in your underwear, they're kind of 'hard to deny' Dennis!
>So are you saying you've had the exact experience as Streiber?
Generally yes, there are differnces in specific content, but then no two
conversations or events are ever "exactly alike" The "general" scenario,
(and more than a few specifics) that Whitley has so eloquently discribed
hold true however.
>And what, exactly, would that experience be?
Terror, confusion, paralysis, disorientation. Some calm moments, some not
so calm. But PHYSICAL, and VERY real.
>Streiber has long since divorced himself from the notion of physical ETs.
>>Have you?
NOPE! I firmly believe that we are dealing with a physical (as in occupies
3 dimensional space, and has mass and substance) phenomenon. I believe that
if you knock on a UFO you'll hear the "Ping"!
>The answer to your first two questions are yes and no, and yes, I also
>>have a kid. I also don't have one -- who was aborted. The yes part is why
>>I began to think about my theory in the first place.
Dennis, why don't you do what Whitley and I did. When I first began to
suspect my involvement,I went to a psychologist, (contrary to popular myth)
and had myself tested. Try working out your 'personal issues' that way,
rather than "projecting" them on us,(and putting 'US' into the position of
having to answer and explain them) thank you very much.
>As for "using Whitley"...excuse me, John, but it was Whitley -- of his own
>>free will and choice -- who opted to make his exterior and intimate
>>interior life a matter of public inspection and record in the first place
>>(while turning a tidy profit off same), not me.
Whitley had the courage and conscience to publicly report what was
happening to himself and his family. I don't see how permission to use his
name in the kind of insulting example that you made is implied in any of
that! And let me ask you a question Dennis, why is it that you can make a
buck off of your published work, and it's not O-K for Whitley? Are you
jealous that Whitley made (more money) than you? What gives? You say that
as if the man committed an unexcusable crime. He published a book or three
and they sold! God bless him,...what's wrong with that for Christs sake?
Did I miss something here or aren't we allowed to make money in America
anymore? Whitley didn't stand around on street corners holding a gun on the
public to buy his books. They chose to.
>I'm just asking a question about same here. If you or him are
>offended by same, what can I say? If you don't want to spill your guts in
>public and then be questioned about same, the solution is fairly
>straightforward: just don't do it.
When I'm offended "I WILL SAY" a lot! And sorry, but you're not going to
make me or any of the other abductees that have come forward "just go away"
you're going to have to deal with me (and them) susquatch, like it or not.
You have to be a lot more than "taller" than me, to run me off buckaroo!
After having to deal with aliens, humans are "easy meat" try again though,
I love a good challenge! <G>
Take care sus'
John Velez, Here to stay!
jvif@spacelab.net
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