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From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:27:56 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:54:01 -0500
Subject: Re: The Most Authentic 'Alien' Image Ever

Sasquatch: Streiber has long since divorced himself from the notion of
physical ETs. Have you?

Velez: NOPE! I firmly believe that we are dealing with a physical (as in
occupies 3 dimensional space, and has mass and substance) phenomenon. I
believe that if you knock on a UFO you'll hear the "Ping"!

Sasquatch: Then you have a dilemma, don't you? You've both had the same
experience, but one of you thinks it was at the hands of physical ETs and
the other doesn't. Now what is an outsider like me -- indeed, _any_ outsider
-- supposed to make of this situation? You can't fault me for being confused
if the heart of the experience is such that it can support both
"interpretations," as well as others.

Velez: Dennis, why don't you do what Whitley and I did. When I first began to
suspect my involvement,I went to a psychologist, (contrary to popular myth)
and had myself tested. Try working out your 'personal issues' that way,
rather than "projecting" them on us,(and putting 'US' into the position of
having to answer and explain them) thank you very much.

Sas: And what "personal issues" would those be, John? Are you saying that
I'm not allowed to ask questions and propose theories? Am I supposed to go
see a psychiatrist because I came up with a theory that attempts to grapple
with the Roper Report numbers, _not_ -- let me reiterate -- your own
personal experience? For all I know, both you and Whitley were abducted by
real aliens -- which wouldn't necessarily affect my theory at all, as you'd
know if you would ever bother to read it, as opposed to just vehemently
denouncing it.

I would be perfectly happy personally if the Roper numbers would just go
away, in which case there wouldn't be any need for a theory like mine. But
abductionologists continue to cite them as if they really meant something.

Velez: Whitley had the courage and conscience to publicly report what was
happening to himself and his family. I don't see how permission to use his
name in the kind of insulting example that you made is implied in any of
that! And let me ask you a question Dennis, why is it that you can make a
buck off of your published work, and it's not O-K for Whitley? Are you
jealous that Whitley made (more money) than you? What gives? You say that
as if the man committed an unexcusable crime. He published a book or three
and they sold! God bless him,...what's wrong with that for Christs sake?
Did I miss something here or aren't we allowed to make money in America
anymore? Whitley didn't stand around on street corners holding a gun on the
public to buy his books. They chose to.

Sas: Of course it's OK for anyone to make a living off their writing. I
reiterate what I said earlier, though: When that writing deals specifically
with one's inner and family life, then I'm equally free -- having paid for
the book -- to raise any questions I have the courage and conscience to, as
well. Sorry, John, but it comes with the territory. That's why there are two
sets of libel standards in this country, one dealing with public figures,
and one dealing with everyone else. Streiber is a public person. He's been
subjected to a lot more "insulting" suggestions and questions than my one.

(I might add that Strieber once had a writing career wholly outside the UFO
field. What happened to that career? As you say, the marketplace indeed
dictates what sells and what doesn't, which raises the issue: is Streiber
immune to any  none too subtle marketplace demands and pressures to come up
with another book of "Visitor" experiences? It's a question I don't pretend
to answer, but one I and others have every right to at least raise,
unpleasant as it might be.)

There is nothing Whitley can do that would make me jealous. (Nothing
personal, Mr. Streiber!) My question is not, in your words, an "insulting
example." I do admit that the whole subject of abortion in this country is
an emotionally charged one (which was part and parcel of my theory). No one
has yet been shot at for saying they were abducted, for example. But your
choice of words throughout this discussion indicates that you are reacting
much more emotionally to the subject than I am.

Velez: When I'm offended "I WILL SAY" a lot! And sorry, but you're not going to
make me or any of the other abductees that have come forward "just go away"
you're going to have to deal with me (and them) susquatch, like it or not.
You have to be a lot more than "taller" than me, to run me off buckaroo!
After having to deal with aliens, humans are "easy meat" try again though,
I love a good challenge! <G>

Sas: I'm almost at a loss as to how to respond. You could call me anything
under the Sun, John, and I assure you that the "offense" would lie with me,
and not you. Are you paranoid? Where is there the least suggestion in what
I've said that I'm trying to get you or anyone else to "just go away"?

While you're here, though, there is one thing I wish you'd do and that's
read David Hufford's "The Terror That Comes in the Night: An
Experience-Centered Study of Supernatural Assault Traditions," University of
Pennsylvania Press, 1982. Your library should have it, and I believe a
paperback edition is still in print. ISBN 0-8122-7851-8.

To return briefly but to one other issue you raised: anomalous scars and
scoop marks. Have you ever heard of stigmata? Do you then believe that
individuals who suffer or display same were crucified by real Roman
soldiers? There is a vast body of literature, medical, religious, anecdotal
and other dealing with the remarkable ability of the mind to influence
matter, in this case the human body. It appears, then, that stigmata is
somehow psychological in origin. Does that mean that I in anyway "demean"
the stigmatee? Of course not. If anything, it increases my appreciation for
the power and wonder of the human mind. At the same time, it obviously calls
for a radically new definition of what most of us mean by "psychological."

There are also thousands of people today who testify to sexual abuse and
satanic cults (and sacrifice) for which there is absolutely no objective
evidence whatsoever. Should one conclude from that there is absolutely no
sexual abuse nor satanic cults anywhere? Of course not. One nonetheless
remains obliged to come up with some theory that would account for the
obviously "false" cases, even when the experiencer of same may remain
completely convinced of the reality of their experience. In some cases they
are simply (and demonstrably) wrong -- which hasn't prevented the ruin of
numerous lives. (Maybe you ought to take in the new movie of Arthur Miller's
"The Crucible" this weekend and think deeply about any possible
implications, assuming you don't consider that another "insulting" exercise
on my part.)

That was the whole point of my original theory. There may well be UFO
abductions -- certainly there is a UFO abduction experience! -- but nowhere
near anything on the scale suggested by the Roper Report numbers. (Work out
the math and logistics on your own sometime.) But assuming the numbers might
indicate _something_ going on in the body politic, what could that something
be? That was the question that I originally asked myself, not any "personal
issue" or "projection" that I felt compelled to work out, dig?

I'm sorry you didn't like the answer I came up with. I'll try to do better
next time.

In the meantime, not going nowhere, neither...

SA Sasquatch
Area 102