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From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 17:57:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:55:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Code of Ethics

----------
> From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> To: updates@globalserve.net
> Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics
> Date: Saturday, December 21, 1996 11:12 AM

> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 12:07:41 -0500
> From: "Steven J. Powell" <sjpowell@access.digex.net>
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics
> References: <2.2.32.19961221100728.00712190@globalserve.net>
>
> > From: "Clark Hathaway" <earthwrk@cyberport.com>
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Code of ethics
> >
> > true spirituality has NOTHING to do with religion. Down
through
> > the ages John there have been many atrocities committed in
the
> > name of this or that religion. Where I ask you is the
> > spirituality in committing inhumane acts John?
>
> Beats me!?  (Not being religious or spiritual makes things
like that
> just about impossible for me to understand...)

<chuckle>  Then you concede that dogma does not constitute
spirituality.  <grin>

I say to you John Powell that the fact that you care more for
the well being of an abductee's mental/emotional condition is
indicative of you possess some spirituality.  <wide, evil grin>

> > Spirituality in my view is an evolving condition within each
of
> > us that is exemplified partially by our individual
Humaneness.
>
> I agree with that but I'll also point that most religions
would have a
> problem with that.  Most religions don't really or directly
acknwledge
> the humaness of humans as apart for their God.

How these religions react to this or that doesn't necessarily
indicate that they are correct. ;-)
Frankly, I don't really give a good fig how they react. Truth is
truth.

> > Hopefully you get my point.
>
> I definitely understand the point.  If we placed traditional
> religions at one end of the spectrum and so-called secular
humanism
> at the other end of the spectrum then your definition of
spirituality
> would be somewhere in the middle.

I honestly don't know John. I dimly recall a discussion of human
secularism with my former partner's son one time whereas he was
giving his view that he fit the definition, but for the life of
me I can't recall what it was. <grin>

All I can state from my viewpoint is that Religion is
ritualistic. One does not need to be ritualistic in order to be
spiritual. However, considering that I was raised within a
family that was not especially ritual oriented nor rich in
tradition, I could be wet behind the ears. <grin>

> > Thus, Religions are control mechanisms John.
>
> I won't argue that <grin>.

I pretty much stand by that one. ;-)

> > > That was extremely unfortunate and hopefully you've
managed to
> > > undo most of that silliness.  As we now know that
individual wasn't
> > > an acceptable MHP to begin with.
> > Hahaha!  I was branded anathema from the gitgo John. <grin>
> > I didn't for a second buy that hogwash and did my best in
the
> > attempt to point out why I felt that it was pure baloney. I
can
> > honestly relate that following a number of the
get-togethers, I
> > was taken aside by a few and thanked for speaking out. I
once
> > again challenge others who have experienced similar
> > circumstances to my own, to seriously question what are to
me
> > the illusionary trappings provided by those who perpetrated
the
> > circumstances in the first place.
>
> Its important to challenge yourself and your memories, its
like a
> self-test.

I can't argue that. :-)

> > > Most experiencers I've talked to would say something
similar.
> > > The high strangeness of the experience, and various
specific events,
> > > seem to stand almost as a contradiction to it being a
3D-real event.
> > Really. That hasn't yet been my experience.
>
> I don't mean to say they think it wasn't a 3D event, only that
their
> memories of them are so _different_ from ordinary 3D events.

Ahhh!  Well, mine certainly seemed to be a 3D event and I don't
know how to alter my memories otherwise. However, it is those
very memories that I question. It is ironic that the most
bizarre of those memories are the ones that seem the most real
or 3D.

> > > That's largely the name of the game.  Therapy can't,
shouldn't
> > > and generally won't prove something right or wrong - just
get you
> > > back in the game.  In you case it was mostly self-therapy
and you
> > > aren't the only person who mostly helped themselves.  A
non-trivial
> > > part of traditional psychology is helping you to become
your own
> > > best therapist.
> > Yup!  Kinda like hypnosis. <grin>
>
> Except safer...

Ethics should apply no matter what methodology is employed John.

Traditional therapy would serve to enable an efficient dealing
with the emotional content, but wouldn't necessarily shed any
light as to whether the event constituted full or partial 3D
reality or something else. I think that you will concede that
this question is also very important.
Hypnosis employed with ethics, safeguards and control could and
has shed some light on these questions. The onus however has
been upon the researcher to maintain an attitude of objectivity
concerning the events. It has also been the responsibility of
the researcher whether acknowledged or not, to take into account
and honestly consider ALL OF THE EVIDENCE that has been present
in each individual case. I feel we both can agree that for the
most part in abduction research, this has not taken place.

> > > I understand that.  And if you told your story to a person
> > > who's sanity you didn't question and that person was even
moderately
> > > swayed that probably something _did_ happen to you, then
you would
> > > have (maybe just a little tiny bit) demonstrated to
yourself that
> > > you weren't crazy.
> > Okay, I see your point, you're correct.
>
> That's part of the self-testing.  Its a productive element
only p to the
> point where it shifts into non-challenging belief.
>
> > I believe that the abduction scenarios can be brought to a
halt.
> > This does not necessarily mean that the encounters stop
however,
> > it just means that their nature changes.
>
> There's been a few things written about that.  Its an
interesting angle
> that by doing some mental/spiritual work you can significantly
influence
> an encounter.

They really display some frustration when things aren't going
according to plan. <grin>

> > > Perhaps you've had the experience of talking to someone
about
> > > your experiences and (somehow, some way) they became
_totally_
> > > convinced that they were _positively_ real.  Did their
110%
> > > acceptance, genuine as it may be to them, seem hollow or
shallow to
> > > you?
> > Reserved. <grin>
> > But my friend, I fail to see how it could be any other way.
>
> HAHAHAHAHA!!!!  Okay, I can accept that.
>
> > > And that's the problem.  Traditional science would say
that
> > > there's nothing wrong with the hardware, it performed
exactly as it
> > > should, and it recorded no 3D events at all.  Traditional
psychology
> > > might then say that there's nothing wrong with the person
either,
> > > but they _are_ suffering some trauma from what can
_currently_ only
> > > be described as a nightmare.  Maybe, in our example, we'd
get lucky
> > > and there'd be something else, a physical marking or
something, to
> > > complicate things.
> > Having said the above John and in consideration of the
entire
> > exchange, perhaps you are getting a bit of a feel for what I
was
> > referring to by the term 'awareness'. Some are consciously
aware
> > of things within their surroundings within which others have
no
> > cognizance. Therefore, these things are real to them on an
> > subtle experiential interactive way while to the others,
there
> > is not an equal amount of perception.
>
> Yep, I understand that.  So there has to be some way to move
this off
> square one.  Electronic monitoring may not (likely won't)
_solve_ the
> issue but it may very likely focus research.

I feel that this is correct. Or put another way, I feel that
some electronic monitoring such as employed in parapsychological
research, may certainly indicate and affirm that something is
indeed occurring on a higher level that is indeed serving to
effect the lower.

> > > I can convince myself using non-traditional approaches but
I
> > > couldn't convince anyone else without them.
> > Agreed. Yet, your experience is not any less valid is it?
> > Most especially when you encounter others who independently
> > report nearly the exact same experience(s) under similar
> > circumstances.
>
> By "experience" I didn't mean an encounter or abduction, I
meant the
> path through the data.  Probably nobody can duplicate my
approach, what
> I read, who I met, talked to and worked with, etc.  But it can
surely be
> closely approximated.  Most people closely approximating that
path can
> convince themselves based only on the circumstantial data that
something
> is going on.  They probably can't convince anyone else unless
that other
> person takes a similar path through the data.

Okay, I follow.

> A good example of that is a recent message in this List from
Cathy.  It
> was quite impassioned, emotional and powerful.  Clearly she
believes
> something is going on.  Despite some techinal inaccuracies the
impact
> (intent) of her message was to hope to cause readers to move
in the
> direction of believing the possibility of so-called alien
abductions.
> That's fine, so far as it goes.  But without proof all we have
is
> belief, which is simply not enough to cause most folks to move
_beyond_
> thinking of the events as merely possible.

I felt and responded to her frustration. I understand it. It is
all too easy to accept that indeed Galaxians <chuckle> are here
abducting us and perpetrating all manner of nefarious acts.
Whelp, when one has the physical contusions and marks, what can
others expect?  These are after all, 3D effects. This is one
very good reason for all manner of electronic monitoring to
include covert video. I don't know if it will do any good as I
suspect that [1] the activity will cease for the duration or [2]
the equipment will in some cases be rendered temporarily
inoperable.

The question of course is: is it really all that important to
suspend investigation pending a decision on who or what
constitute the perpetrators or what constitutes the event?

Point [1]  Something exceedingly strange is happening that is
effecting in dire manner the lives of
              many around this planet.

Point [2]  This desperately calls for team research into this
perplexing problem conducted in an
               ethical, scientifically honest manner.

> > just now beginning to experience this and are experiencing a
> > beginning of it's development within themselves. I suggest
that
> > were this not the case, they could ill afford perpetrating
the
> > inhumane acts to which they reportedly have.
>
> Sure, that's possible I guess.  We tend to think that no
intelligent
> creature would do these things unless either they haven't
confronted
> their compassionate/spiritual side -OR- they have and somehow
dispensed
> with it.  I guess either possibility works.

It will be interesting to see how this develops.

> Of course, if they _haven't_ encountered religion yet then
they're in
> for a surprise when they get set upon by Earth's evangelists!

Hahaha!  I can imagine a funny movie based on that John. <grin>

> > I just pointed out one of mine. I do not for a second buy
that
> > these beings where ever and however they do get here, are
far in
> > advance of us in aspects that really matter.
> > Another thing. I feel that despite the possibility that they
may
> > possess superior weaponry for example, they have
insufficient
> > numbers to take advantage of the slight increase in
superiority.
> > Their only alternative it is clear, lies within manipulation
to
> > gain their ends.
>
> Yeah, they obviously don't want to destroy the place, or maybe
can't.

It would seem that way.

> > > Well, then we're screwed.  Probably the single most common
> > > thread that runs through human society, politics,
economics, and
> > > even religion is reaction instead of action (or
pro-action).  We
> > > wait for something to happen then we react to it instead
of
> > > determining that something is going to happen and act on
it.
> > I prefer to have faith and trust in spirit John.
>
> My mind just doesn't work that way.

I did not mean to indicate that I sit by and do nothing. I just
meant to indicate that I strive to take a positive view of
things. I try to respond to situations rather than to react to
them.
However, we are probably playing semantics here. <grin>

> > > I don't think anything is going to change that in the near
> > term.
> > I do, but as inferred, many will be oblivious to the change.
>
> I don't understand how a change can occur without everybody
realizing
> that it happenned.

I could only explain this using metaphysical terminology and at
that I doubt that I could adequately convey what I wished to
say. I really don't understand in full the mechanics of what I
suspect is to occur.

There are a couple of possible scenarios. In either, there will
be most assuredly some mystifying circumstances that will happen
to indicate that something extraordinary has just occurred. More
than likely the impression that stays with those who remain will
all too quickly fade.
The events that will serve to formulate those impressions will
be unprecedented within the history of mankind I feel.

> > > Yes, it should.  It all starts with a police report.
> > Let me assure you that in this community, that would bring
> > nothing but contempt and ridicule.
>
> So, what's new about that?  They still have official
responsibilities
> they are required by law to fulfill.

Given the sensitivity of those who have undergone these
experiences John, it is easy to understand why they have been
and remain reluctant to file a complaint. It would seem that
some attitude adjustment is in order here and don't mean to
indicate on the part of the experiencer. The fact of the matter
is that they have already traveled the extra mile.

> > > People don't like to admit they took a wrong turn
especially
> > > if they'd been on that wrong turn road a long time.  There
clearly
> > > is a consensus-likde decision among most that this is a
3D, aliens
> > > in spaceships, deal and they exclude the paranormal (or
sometimes
> > > explain it away with science fiction).
> > Then they play into the perpetrators hands In My Opinion.
> > Once one breaks out of this mold and is what is termed by
some
> > an experiencer John, one notes a decided change in the
content
> > of the experiences that occur after.
>
> Interesting.  So the very nature of the experiences changes
based on the
> thinking if the experiencer?

Not the original experiences and I can only state that this was
only my experience.
Too, it didn't have so much to do with my thinking or attitude
as it did/does my level of awareness as a result of the thinking
and changing of various attitudes.

Kindest Regards,

     Clark