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UFO UpDates Mailing List

From: Dennis <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 13:03:55 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 01:10:11 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs and Professional Associations & Col.


>Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:06:18 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@ucs.orst.edu>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>Subject: Re: Col. Corso and Discussions by Stacy & Alevy



>Hello List,

>It's taken me too long to get around to reading Corso's book, but now that
>I've done so, I must say I side with Gary Alevy on this.  I couldn't find
>any statement saying that Jesse Marcel had been at the crash site where
>the UFO & alien bodies had been found.  The closest I find Corso comes to
>this is on p. 10: "Officers and enlisted men [CIC personnel] alike
>disembarked from the transport planes and changed into civilian clothes
>for the investigation into enemy activities on the area [Roswell area].
>They joined up with base intelligence officers like Jesse Marcel and Steve
>Arnold..."  He goes on to place Arnold, not Marcel, at the crash site.


Dear Jim:

You, sir, are an apologist. You would apologize for Pol Pot if it could be
demonstrated that he had had (or just claimed to have had) a UFO encounter
at some point in his life. (And, hey, how do we know he didn't?)

Your apologies (and an amazing, stunning, mind-boggling appetite for
believing absolutely anything positive anyone says about UFOs, no matter how
patently far-fetched or ridiculous on the surface), however, are compounded
by the fact that apparently you can't even read.

Check out the top of page 17 (or did you make it that far?): there's Marcel
at the crash site -- with bodies. Now, turn the page, that's right, to page
18, and tell the list what you see here. Not only is Marcel still at the
crash site, we even get two paragraphs of quotes from him.


>But if the book had mistakenly placed Marcel there, so what?  It would be
>easy enough for a retired officer in his eighties to make such a mistake,
>in reading through books by Randle and others, or more likely the book's
>writer, William Birnes, could easily have made such a mistake.  But I
>don't see that they did.


And that's precisly the trouble, Jim. You _don't_ see, not even when it's
staring you in the face. If Corso and Birnes were wrong about Marcel, what
else might they be wrong about? Or was this their only slip-up in 341 pages?

>Gary is correct here, too.  On p. 32 Corso clearly states his recollection
>that the body he saw had 4-fingered hands and no thumb that he could see.
>If some advertising brochure for the book erroneously said six fingers,
>shouldn't one be able to discern which of these to consider the more
>reliable?


Jim, oh, Jim, where do you think a publicist would have gotten the material
they excerpted if not from the original manuscript or early material
supplied by the authors? It looks as if they changed the first reference to
six fingers to four in the book at some point, but then forgot about the
other reference to six-fingers which occurs later. Oops! But I'm sure you
can apologize for that, too, as you can apologize for any and everything.

>Actually, I find Corso's eye-witness account to be quite supportive, in an
>indirect sense, of the cameraman's story that the event leading to the
>"alien autopsy" film occurred on May 31 or June 1st and near Soccorro,
>from which we conclude it was a different crash event.  So, no wonder the
>number of fingers wasn't necessarily six per hand at Roswell.  Corso
>corroborates the nurse's report that it was four per hand.  Similarly,
>Corso's description of the alien body indicates the aliens in the Roswell
>crash were quite different in appearance from those of the Soccoro crash.


See what I mean?


>Gary's right here to squelch Dennis' satire.  We don't know how the other
>military branches handled UFO debris from this and other UFO crashes that
>came into their possession, or how long it may have languished and under
>what sorts of security arrangements with them.  Hopefully some other
>courageous retired military persons will come forward with their reports
>before their deaths, and hopefully the agents of disinformation will be
>unable to find one who will give forth with a concocted debunking story.


Hopefully, Corso and Birnes will prove some of their claims. They could
start by making Trudeau's autobiography available, along with the manuscript
submitted to the printers, and copies of any correspondence they may have
had during the writing of the book, or perhaps any audio or videotapes that
Birnes may have made while interviewing Corso. But you can pretty safely bet
your collection of Meier photographs that that won't happen.


>I do agree here with Dennis that in the book Corso comes out looking like
>quite a hero.  Yet, occasionally, here and there, life does produce a
>hero.


And occasionally it produces frauds and charlatans, sometimes ones with
otherwise impeccable military credentials. The two are not necessarily
mutually exclusive, you know.

>It could also be that writer Birnes made Corso out to be more of a hero
>than was warranted.


I think at least that aspect of the book was a true collaboration.


>Yet what is Dennis doing getting after Corso for treating the aliens like
>evil beings?  Surely Dennis doesn't wish anyone to imply he thinks the
>aliens are benevolent.


No, what I want people to realize is that Corso's entire alien invasion
scenario is preposterous on its surface and in its reasoning. If they're
here and hell-bent on invasion, then why did they hesitate long enough for
Corso to save us and the world from them? Not very smart aliens, eh? I'd
like to see the performance review of the alien general or admiral in charge
of the invasion fleet who blew it by hanging around a good 30 to 40 years,
twiddling his four or six fingers, before we put up a defense shield. No
match for Corso he!


>Gary's right here, also.  If Corso had retained some piece of Roswell
>debris as evidence, for whatever reason, I really wonder if Dennis
>wouldn't be objecting to his violating a security provision and therefore
>casting extra doubts on Corso's integrity on that account.


No, Gary's not right here, and no, I wouldn't object to Corso violating any
security provision.

>I don't think that Dennis' later response to Gary's response was worth
>adding in to this discussion.

>   Jim



And I share that opinion of your own remarks. Since when were you the list
master, anyway? Why don't you go off somewhere in cyberspace -- not, mind,
that you haven't -- and start up a Philip Corso Appreciation & Apology
Society? You deserve the heroes you get, and I would think, on a normal day,
that Meier and Corso would be more than enough for most individuals. You can
be the Prez and Gary the Treasurer. Or vice versa. It doesn't matter to me.

Ordinarily, I would have responded in a jocular vein, but today is Saturday,
my serious day, for which I apologize.

Dennis