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From: "Clarke Hathaway" <earthwrk@doitnow.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 13:15:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 16:35:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Jacobs on Abductions & O.B.E.s


John Koopmans wrote:

> > Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 19:02:30 -0700
> > From: "Clarke Hathaway <earthwrk@doitnow.com>
> > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Jacobs on Abductions & O.B.E.s

> > > Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:51:30 -0500
> > > To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> > > From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
> > > Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Jacobs on Abductions & O.B.E.s

> > > >From: Paul Devereux <DevereuxP@aol.com>
> > > >Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:42:46 EST
> > > >To: updates@globalserve.net
> > > >Subject: Jacobs on Abductions & O.B.E.s

> <snippage>

> > Hello John and my compliments to the list.

> > > We all have scoop marks as well. I could go on here quite a bit
> > > about the "physical" aspects of this that have convinced me that
> > > something real world, real time, and physical is not only
> > > interacting with us, they leave behind evidence on our bodies.

> > So do I John, though I believe that you well know that I have a
> > decidedly different view of this than yourself. It is not
> > incumbant upon me however to attempt to invalidate your version
> > of reality. Paul approaches my position with his stated opinion,
> > but I don't feel that his view is quite broad enough.
> >

<much snipage>

> > I have an effective modality of dealing with these visitations. I
> > really don't give a flying fig for any negative commentary by
> > would be detractors. I have something that works and I have
> > ceased to play the role of victim. If anyone out there can make
> > the same claim, then I congratulate them!

> > Clarke Hathaway

> Hello Clarke:

> I was trying to follow your explanation of what you think happens during
> an abduction, but there is not enough to get a better idea of the bigger
> picture. Do you have any essays (electronic) that you could share, or
> can you point me to any previous posts where you explain it more fully?

> >From what I can understand of your explanation, it does seem to make
> sense, and I am curious to know more about it.

> Thank you in advance

> John Koopmans

 Hello John and my compliments to the list.....

All I have to go on in these matters like anyone else including
John Valez, is my total experience. That perhaps explains our
differing views rather than being a question of sanity as some
would like to have it.

In my opinion it is extremely important for anyone doing research
or inquiry into abduction or any other subject for that matter to
go into it with a completely open mind. If entered into with a
fixed opinion or summation, one is merely seeking those
circumstances that fit their theory. In defense of this DISHONEST
practice moreover, these practitioners can be most often observed
to resort to exercises of condemnation of any who hold views
contrary to their own. I could cite a long list of these types
throughout the recent history of ufology/Alien Abduction
research, but it really wouldn't add anything to our discussion
here. I merely mention it due to some of these self-serving
tactics being observed in practice today within this forum. It is
an interesting phenomena in itself. When the frontal attacks are
shown as being ineffective, what usually occurs are those of a
more private nature filled with threats and lies.

I have an area on one of my hard drives where such are archived.
;-)

Anyway sorry about the digression John.... to continue. :-)

I Am not sure that I entirely understand your question entirely.
I will assume that you are seeking the whys if not the
wherefores. <g>

In answer to electronic essays, I must confess yes I have done a
bit of writing and that was back in my old FidoNet days. I
understand that these are archived at different sites around the
web. They are reflective of my thinking during the 1993-1995
period. My ideas and understanding have gone through quite a
transformation since then however.

I want to take the opportunity here to point out that just
because the circumstances exist of one having a website devoted
to this or any other subject hardly qualifies them as being an
expert or more knowledgeable in these areas as anyone else. If
one wishes to truly gauge the credibility and character of an
individual who has a group or organization, talk to some of those
who are no longer affiliated with that group. An important point
to ascertain would be why these people left the group. Was it due
to their belief system being different than the founder? Has the
founder or the core members attacked the credibility of the
former member either publicly or privately. Another question
pertinent to this would be, is this an open group or one that is
cloistered and subject to a fee or dues ala membership?

The reason I mention these things at all is due to personal
experience, it is a great concern of mine. During the earlier
years of my abduction realization, I was the member of a CE-IV
(close encounters of the fourth kind) group conducted by a
moderately high profile Abduction Researcher and Doctorate of
Psychology in Sacramento, California. The membership was closed
to the general public and interested parties other than those who
had been treated by the Doctor. This small organization had all
of the trappings of a cult. The Doctor was placed upon a pedestal
as a 'father' figure and his personal philosophies were strongly
fostered. Each meeting was filled with psychological manipulation
in many guises to include blatant 'peer pressure tactics' to
further the notion of his being the Aliens sole representative
upon this planet and the members as constituting components of
the human race being above the bulk of their peers..
During each meeting psychic information was sought from the
individual members with interpretation by the good Doctor. My
adopted role while there was to offer as well as I could a
counter-point to his insanity. I AM gratified that in a few cases
at least I was successful as seen from the few sincere thank yous
that I received. These sorts of endeavors have NO place within
honest research in so far as concerns subjects already looked at
with a jaundiced eye by those of science.

I could go into a long winded dissertation upon this subject with
most of it based upon material that I have studied over the years
and quite a bit of conjecture. However, I do not feel that this
is the proper forum for doing so.

Most of the attendees of this list are adherents of the Nuts and
Bolts perspective concerning Ufology and Alien Abduction.
Introduction of relative esoteric data by way of explanation of
certain of these phenomena would likely cause a bit of disruption
as it does each time it is presented. The same basic people with
vested interest rise up in clamor in a blatant attempt at
censorship. The current tactic as can be seen is that any who
hold an opposing or otherwise contrary view is subject to having
his/her sanity held in question and subject to ridicule.  That is
unfortunate.

This being the case, it is little wonder that the Body Scientific
holds the Study of UFOs and Alien Abduction in such contempt.
Each time someone offers a fresh perspective, one adherent or
other to the prevailing views rises up in loud protest ultimately
resorting to underhanded tactics in order to discredit those
professing new or different views.

Pertinent to what you seem to be asking though, it has been my
observation while in the company of quite a few abductees that
those in whom I AM satisfied as having genuinely experienced an
abduction event display a heightened psychic sensitivity.
I suspect that this has much to do with why some experience these
things while others do not.

My own experiences are literally filled with paranormal
occurrences. When the Ant Woman was approaching the back of my
van for instance and I found that I couldn't move, there were
'puff-balls' of pale fluorescent light popping on and off in
front of me within and without the back of the van. These were
marble to golf ball in size. In recollection there was a tenuous
quality about them. I seriously doubt that were I capable of
moving that I would have been able to grab a hold on one.

Those who would detract from my view and label me as being other
than sane, hold the view that beings flowing and passing through
walls constitute actual physical occurrences. They also take
literal in a conventional reality sense that humans can be
levitated as well as passed through solid objects as well as many
more absolutely fantastic claims. Yet none of these things are
demonstrable by any branch of science. They will react with
"well, it is alien technology after all" conveniently throwing
aside the fact that an alien no matter from where ALSO HAS
various immutable physical laws to deal with.

This by no means negates or invalidates any abductees experiences
however. Universal physical law does not apply in the same manner
on other levels of our existence or awareness.

Perhaps I shall have to set all of this down within the covers of
a book.

 Sincere Kindest Regards...

Clarke Hathaway