Earth Aliens On Earth.com
Resources for those who are stranded here
Earth
Our Bookstore is OPEN
Over 5000 new & used titles, competitively priced!
Topics: UFOs - Paranormal - Area 51 - Ghosts - Forteana - Conspiracy - History - Biography - Psychology - Religion - Crime - Health - Geography - Maps - Science - Money - Language - Recreation - Technology - Fiction - Other - New
Search... for keyword(s)  

Location: Mothership -> UFO -> Updates -> 1997 -> Feb -> Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1b

UFO UpDates Mailing List

Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1b

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:19:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 22:09:37 -0500
Subject: Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1b


=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D
Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1b
continued from 1a   (2 of 2)
----------------------------------
A researcher's response to James Oberg's:=20
"IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs"
by Jerry Cohen=20
=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D



re: GORDON COOPER'S GENERAL CREDENTIALS:
Getting back to Gordon Cooper.  Although Cooper was in fact one=20
more pilot making a UFO claim(s), as Mr. Oberg noted he was a=20
special one indeed;  one who's superior skills, coordination,=20
reflexes, senses, intellect for task, etc. finally led to his=20
being selected for our space program. He was not your average=20
pilot.  A person of Cooper's ability and stature, who had worked=20
as hard as he must have to get where he was, certainly would not=20
place himself in a position where his judgment, character and=20
reputation in general might possibly be compromised unless he felt=20
positive about what he had seen.  Cooper was certainly not known=20
to be a hallucinator or he would not have been selected for so=20
demanding a position.  He had a great familiarity with things=20
flying "in the air" as it was part of his job to be familiar with=20
such things.=20

OVERLOOKED IMPORTANT PIECES OF "SOLID" EVIDENCE from Cooper's=20
statements:  =20
With this firmly in mind, we therefore must also note that in=20
paragraph seven, Mr. Oberg quotes Cooper as saying "People have=20
seen flying saucers at close hand.  And in many cases they have=20
been verified on radar.  It is ridiculous for anyone to say that=20
they're all completely unreal."=20

J.C.    In the latter portions of my essays, I will present solid,=20
certified, documented evidence to show that this statement of=20
Cooper's is not only 100% correct but also, in the case of=20
radar/visual sightings, some of the most compelling evidence=20
confirming both the existence of UFOs and their level of=20
technology.

c.      Without getting lost in discussing the pages of proof=20
submitted regarding the supposed enhancements to Coopers=20
statements which Mr. Oberg attempted to demonstrate were created=20
by other individuals, I will concede that it is human nature for=20
people to build upon stories, misquote information, fabricate,=20
etc., especially if there is money to be made from same or=20
possibly, careers to be made in newspaper journalism.  UFO=20
researchers are well aware of this.  However, contrary to what Mr.=20
Oberg would have us believe, some professional UFO researchers=20
actually do follow a general rule that one must "take with a grain=20
of salt" second-hand accounts, sources, etc. relating to UFO=20
claimed incidents and, instead concentrate on examining initial=20
reports and how they correlate with other reports from the same=20
general time period.  (i.e.   Otherwise, one indeed might devote=20
inordinate amounts of time on accounts possibly containing=20
inaccurate, story-built, unreliable evidence while possibly=20
overlooking other solid, verified evidence that one never had time=20
left over to find.)

MORE ON SECOND-HAND ACCOUNTS:
This particular researcher, attempting to find "solid" evidence,=20
has tried his best to avoid this pitfall.  I normally treat=20
delayed response, second-hand books or accounts as "second-hand"=20
evidence; material that demands extreme scrutiny and caution in=20
its use.   What is important to note here, however, is that if a=20
person did accidentally fall into this trap regarding one case (if=20
actually proven via solid documentation and the accused accorded a=20
fair rebuttal), this does not prove he or she did so intentionally=20
and should not automatically refute the entire body of that=20
individual's work, especially if he/she had generally been=20
considered to be conscientious and generally meticulous in most of=20
the rest of his efforts in that area of expertise.  That person's=20
research should still be examined on a case by case basis.  One=20
mistake should not invalidate that person's entire work otherwise=20
Mr. Oberg's own lifetime body of criticism regarding UFOs might=20
also thereby be dismissed in total because he spent inordinate=20
time discussing these second-hand versions (a "no-no" in itself!)=20
without providing adequate solid proof to substantiate the=20
entirety of his accusations, some of which verged on slander.

ON THE HUMAN IMPERFECTION OF SCIENTISTS:
Likewise, one might be forced to discount the bulk of Dr. Edward=20
Condon's previously fine work after many scientists realized the=20
conclusions he reached in the Colorado Study were not supported by=20
the data in the Colorado Study itself.  One would also be forced=20
to consider a similar indictment concerning members of the=20
National Academy of Sciences who endorsed it.  This of course=20
would be ludicrous. (This preceding historical highlight will be=20
completely discussed in my documented essays)

ON COOPER'S UFOs OVER GERMANY:
Mr. Oberg, himself, goes to great length analyzing what he claims=20
are such cases of inaccurate story building from various books and=20
sources he mentions in order to point this out to us.=20
(Unfortunately, omitting solid documentation in certain key places=20
that might provide proof of his claims.)  One example occurs in=20
his analysis concerning Gordon Cooper's claims of UFOs over=20
Germany.  He has used supposed "witness" accounts from a dozen or=20
so people who responded to him saying they never had the=20
experience which Cooper claims to have had, to prove to us that=20
Cooper was mistaken in what he says he saw and that (=B6 74 "The=20
popular version of the legend, placing the action in Germany in=20
1951, simply cannot have occurred as Cooper has described it -- if=20
the vast majority of the wirnesses are to be believed.") =20

However, what rightly should have been said was "....if the vast=20
majority of people who RESPONDED are to be believed."  Readers=20
must, in all fairness, realize that since they didn't "see it,"=20
those individuals cannot be properly referred to as "witnesses." =20
Dr. J. Allen Hynek, after studying UFO reports as a prime=20
scientific consultant for the Air Force for many years had this to=20
say in his "The UFO Experience" Henry Regnery Company=20
1972.hardcover.Chapter 1.The Laughter of Science.p.9   =B6 4:

     "some of the very best reports have come from scientifically=20
trained people.... These reports are usually rarely published=20
however, because the person usually requests anonymity." =20

Therefore, it is certainly not "written in stone" that the people=20
who actually witnessed what Cooper says he did would readily come=20
forth to talk about it.  In reality, one must totally understand=20
the Air Force's position on UFOs, the penalties it imposes on=20
those that break the silence, and observed it from Hynek's=20
perspective as consultant to the Air Force in order to properly=20
determine the true validity of some of Mr. Oberg's data in this=20
regard.

COOPER'S ATTEMPT TO RETAIN THE ACCURACY OF HIS CLAIMS:
As Mr. Oberg mentioned, Cooper went out of his way to counter=20
anyone who attributed statements to him he did not make. (Oberg =B6=20
12-16 "Columbia Pictures case", =B6 18 "In spite his often=20
involuntary association with such activities, the quality of=20
Cooper's testimony has been universally recognized.  His=20
integrity, intelligence, and technical competence have never been=20
questioned.", =B6 31 "In a 1978 letter to me, Cooper stressed 'the=20
non-occurrence of a sighting on Mercury 9' ") =20

Although stopping short of saying Cooper lied concerning his=20
claimed sightings, it was implied that Cooper exaggerated, his=20
memory wasn't accurate or Cooper was guilty of "story building"=20
regarding his accounts.  Since Mr. Oberg, himself, demonstrated=20
that Cooper made repeated attempts to keep the accuracy of his=20
initial claim in tact, sans extraneous details provided by others,=20
it becomes difficult for this reader to accept that Cooper was=20
guilty of "story building." Furthermore, as previously stated, it=20
is not fair or necessarily accurate to claim that some of the=20
researchers in question did not carefully check their sources=20
before printing the body of information they displayed, without=20
some sort of rebuttal from them.  Unfortunately, some of the=20
finest of the ones  mentioned are not alive today to make that=20
rebuttal.  Since expecting the dead to perform this feat is asking=20
something just slightly beyond the capabilities of even the most=20
competent, professional researcher, others like myself will have=20
to do some of it for them, the best we can.

DISAGREEMENT CONCERNING SLANDEROUS STATEMENTS AND INNUENDO:
Another bone of contention occurs when Hynek is slandered at the=20
essays end with the following statement:  (=B6 76, 77) , "But=20
solving the cases was the last thing the UFO promoters were=20
interested in. ...."

J.C.    This statement shows a general lack of knowledge=20
concerning Dr. Hynek's life,  career and motives.  This statement=20
does not lie true with what I and others have personally=20
researched concerning Hynek over the years.  Inadequate proof has=20
been presented to make so broad an assumption. I will demonstrate=20
this completely as we proceed in these essays.

     "People who have used Cooper's stories to 'prove' the reality=20
of UFOs (respected ufologists such as Frank Edwards, Leonard=20
Stringfield, J. Allen Hynek, and less respected ones such as=20
Timothy Beckley) seem to have neither known nor really cared about=20
the real truth behind the stories........"

J.C.    This, too, is a blanket statement concerning all the=20
individuals mentioned and has certainly not been adequately proven=20
concerning any one of them. Also, it has not been proven that=20
Cooper was not telling the truth.  Hynek, Stringfield and Edwards=20
have passed on and cannot respond to this.  However, Hynek's=20
revelations concerning Project Blue Book and my own to-be-
illustrated connection between the cases I will present from 1957=20
will certainly demonstrate the possibility, if not probability,=20
that Cooper may well have been telling the truth.

     "Their goal evidently was to piggyback on Cooper's reputation=20
to further their own ufological careers, not to take the=20
opportunity to see what Cooper's actual experiences could teach=20
them about the real UFO phenomenon. The truth behind Cooper's=20
stories was the last thing that seemed to interest them."

J.C.    Again, an assumption on the author's part.  Unless one was=20
there with Gordon Cooper, no one can know what his actual=20
experiences were.  I can speak with confidence from my own=20
research that Dr. Hynek's work was sincere. The following=20
statement attributed to Hynek by Mr. Oberg does not appear to have=20
been made by a person trying to hide his mistakes.

     "Oberg =B6 15       Hynek later admitted he had made a mistake=20
in allowing the newspaper to compile the article from his previous=20
publications while paying him a fee for the use of his name as=20
author -- since he hadn't reviewed the written material prior to=20
publication. Such are the perils of UFO journalism."

Being misled by the intentions of a publisher in one instance, if=20
the facts are actually as Mr. Oberg has stated, should certainly=20
not brand one a general fabricator.   I would hope there would be=20
others who will rise to Dr. Hynek's defense in this regard. Dr.=20
James McDonald is certainly due this accord as well.

BRIEFLY REGARDING MCDONALD:
     Oberg =B6 47    In fact, McDonald had described his findings on=20
July 29,1968, during his testimony on UFOs to a congressional=20
committee. This is the way he described it: "James D. Bittick and=20
John R. Gettys... were at the time Askania cameramen on the test=20
range, and spotted the domed disk UFO just as they reached Askania=20
#4 site at Edwards, a bit before 8:00 AM that day [JEO: Compare=20
this with Beckley's account of "after lunch" -- evidently pure=20
dramatization]. They immediately got into communication with the=20
range director, Frank E. Baker, and asked if anyone else was=20
manning an Askania that could be used to get triangulation shots.=20
Since no other camera operators were on duty at other sites, Baker=20
told them to fire manually, and they got a number of shots before=20
the object moved off into the distance. Bittick estimated that the=20
object lay about a mile away when they got off the first shot,=20
though when first seen he put it at no more than 500 yards off. He=20
and Gettys both said it had a golden color, looked somewhat like=20
an inverted plate with a dome on top, and had square holes or=20
panels around the dome. Gettys thought that the holes were=20
circular, not square. It was moving away from them, seemed to glow=20
with its own luminosity, and had a hazy, indistinct halo around=20
its rim, both mentioned.  The number of shots taken is uncertain:=20
Gettys thought perhaps thirty. The object was lost from sight by=20
the time it moved out to about five miles or so, and they did not=20
see it again.... The photos were shortly taken by base military=20
authorities and were never seen again by the men. In a session=20
later that day, Bittick [was] informed that they had seen a=20
weather balloon distorted by the desert atmospheric effects."

     Oberg =B6 48    When I told Gettys in 1982 that McDonald had=20
used his case in congressional testimony, the UFO witness was=20
pleased but surprised McDonald had never gotten back to him about=20
the use he'd put his testimony to. So the pro-UFO people kept some=20
secrets, too!.

Dr. McDonald brings a recorded, documented case to a congressional=20
committee and, Dr. Oberg, because of Air Force statements claiming=20
the preceding was a "weather balloon...distorted by the desert=20
atmospheric effects." (500 yards away?) assumes that Dr.=20
McDonald's case is invalid and goes even further, intimating that=20
McDonald did something devious in bringing the case to the=20
committee.  Additionally, Oberg clearly states that the witness=20
was pleased that McDonald had done so. Is is possible that=20
McDonald knew he would be pleased? No, that darned McDonald is=20
just trying to be sneaky.

Further along, I will provide 1) another case that McDonald=20
presented to the various science groups that leaves no doubt as to=20
meticulousness of the man and the completeness and honesty of his=20
research and 2) that statistics regarding UFOs, derived from the=20
Air Force's "Project Blue Book" were, as Hynek put it, "a=20
travesty," and additional clear evidence, dating back to at least=20
1957, that the Air Force has not been telling us everything they=20
know regarding UFOs.

ON CLOSED-MINDED SKEPTICS LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE OF UFOs
Since facts count, it is also important to be aware of the=20
following:  If a person, not necessarily consciously, does not=20
want to find evidence of UFOs (or any subject for that matter), he=20
could spend an eternity finding an infinite number of places this=20
evidence does NOT exist. He could look in people's homes, travel=20
to other countries, visit an unimaginable number of uninhabitable=20
planets (if he were capable), examine every "story built, second-
hand account" in existence relating to that subject, or ask every=20
person that never had that experience, and certainly find in that=20
multitude of places and people, proof that the evidence he is=20
telling himself he is searching for, does not exist.


=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D
End:  Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.1b
(2 of 2)
----------------------------------
A researcher's response to James Oberg's:=20
"IN SEARCH OF GORDON COOPER'S UFOs"
=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D++=3D=3D

For documented evidence #1, please see:  "Oberg/Cooper rebuttal.2"

Respectfully submitted,
Jerry Cohen

E-mail:  rjcohen@li.net




Search for other documents to/from: rjcohen

[ Next Message | Previous Message | This Day's Messages ]
[ This Month's Index | UFO UpDates Main Index | MUFON Ontario ]

UFO UpDates - Toronto - updates@globalserve.net
Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - ++ 416-696-0304

A Hand-Operated E-Mail Subscription Service for the Study of UFO Related Phenomena.
To subscribe please send your first and last name to updates@globalserve.net
Message submissions should be sent to the same address.


[ UFO Topics | People | Ufomind What's New | Ufomind Top Level ]

To find this message again in the future...
Link it to the appropriate Ufologist or UFO Topic page.

Archived as a public service by Area 51 Research Center which is not responsible for content.
Software by Glenn Campbell. Technical contact: webmaster@ufomind.com

Financial support for this web server is provided by the Research Center Catalog.