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UFO UpDates Mailing List

From: David <furry@nobelmed.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:38:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:34:26 -0500
Subject: Rosell, Paul Davids & Cecil Adams


>From: Ndunlks@aol.com
>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 04:38:36 -0500 (EST)
>To: iufo@world.std.com
>Subject: IUFO: Producer of Roswell Movie Responds to Straight Dope
>SearchNet's IUFO Mailing List


>Cecil Adams replied:

>I think the word you're looking for in your last paragraph is "humility," not
>"hubris." But let's not nitpick.

>I have attempted to address some of the contentions in your letter below.

>1. PHIL KLASS IS INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST, REVILED, ETC.

>Nonsense. I spoke with two prominent UFO researchers, Karl Pflock and Kevin
>Randle. Both have written books about Roswell and believed there was some
>basis to the stories about crashed spaceships. Pflock no longer believes
>these stories but Randle still does and in fact he was a technical consultant
>for your movie. Although both men had fundamental disagreements with Phil
>Klass, they spoke well of him and said he was a person of integrity. Both
>said they found you rather credulous.

>2. THE MILITARY DESTROYED KEY DOCUMENTS RELATING TO THE CASE WITHOUT
>AUTHORIZATION.

>Three years' worth of outgoing messages from Roswell were destroyed during
>housecleaning, apparently when the military records center was moved from
>Kansas City to St. Louis. The destruction of records was handled somewhat
>casually but government archivists doubt this can be attributed to a
>conspiracy. In any case indications are that the Roswell affair was handled
>largely by telephone.

>There is no question that the military was genuinely concerned about UFOs
>during the late 1940s and early 1950s. Secret documents declassified in the
>mid-1980s reveal anxious discussions on the subject among high-level
>officials. However, none of these documents indicate that the government had
>any physical evidence of crashed saucers or the like. On the contrary, a
>number of documents lament the lack of such evidence.

>3. JESSE MARCEL, JR., SAYS THE STRANGE SYMBOLS HE SAW ON THE DEBRIS WERE
>EMBOSSED ON THE METAL, NOT PRINTED ON TAPE.

>Jesse Marcel, Jr., was a child at the time of the incident. Nearly 50 years
>have passed. Marcel's statements regarding the debris have made him a
>celebrity on the UFO circuit. 'Nuff said.

>4. THE DATES OF THE SECRET PROJECT MOGUL BALLOON LAUNCHES DO NOT COINCIDE
>WITH THE ROSWELL INCIDENT.

>Baloney. A 600-foot-long string of two dozen weather balloons and several
>kitelike radar reflectors was launched from Alamogordo, N.M., on June 4,
>1947. Contact with the balloons was lost when they were less than 20 miles
>from the Brazel ranch. Mac Brazel found the mysterious debris June 14.
> Contemporary descriptions of the debris suggest its appearance was similar
>to that of a wrecked balloon train.

>5. BARRY GOLDWATER TAKES THE "CRASHED SPACESHIP" EXPLANATION VERY SERIOUSLY.

>So? Sen. Goldwater has no personal knowledge of Roswell. Neither do any of
>the other famous names you cite.

>6. GEN. EXON SAYS IT WAS AN EXTRATERRESTRIAL CRASH WITH BODIES.

>Gen. Exon's statements were based on hearsay.  He did not become commander at
>Wright Patterson until many years after the Roswell incident.  He never saw
>any debris.

>7. GEN. DUBOSE SAYS THE "WEATHER BALLOON" STORY WAS CONCOCTED ON ORDERS FROM
>ABOVE.

>Of course. The weather balloon story was intended to conceal the Project
>Mogul experiment, a secret Pentagon project to develop a way to detect
>anticipated Russian atom bomb tests.

>8. FORMER SGT. BOB DEAN SAYS HE SAW A SECRET MEMO SAYING THE MILITARY HAS
>EVIDENCE OF EXTRATERRESTRIAL SPACECRAFT.

>Neither Pflock nor Randle found Dean's statements believable.

>Although I don't suppose there's much chance of persuading you, Paul, others
>may be interested in Karl Pflock's story. He describes himself as skeptical
>about Roswell but says "there's still a chunk of [UFO] data that can't be
>explained by known science."

>Pflock initially was inclined to believe the Roswell UFO stories and spent
>nearly four years researching them. However, "when I got into it, a whole lot
>of what had been claimed turned out not to have been true at all," he says.

>Pflock says he now doesn't think Roswell had anything to do with aliens. "The
>congruence between the Project Mogul equipment and what we know about the
>[Roswell] debris is just too great to be dismissed." He plans to discuss the
>matter in a book to be published on the 50th anniversary of the incident
>entitled, "The Roswell UFO Mystery: Legend and Reality."

>Everybody says you know how to make an entertaining movie, though.

Cecil Adams' comments and retort to Paul Davids made for interesting
reading. I as well would like to comment on HIS comments.

1. PHIL KLASS IS INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST, REVILED, ETC

I personally refuse to go here, simply as I have not met the man and as
such, have no personal opinion of him.  Additionally, I also like to follow
some advice my dear old granny gave me, "If you can't say something nice
about someone, don't say anything at all."  Advice that I suggest both you
and Mr. Davids adopt.

2. THE MILITARY DESTROYED KEY DOCUMENTS RELATING TO THE CASE WITHOUT
AUTHORIZATION.

It is WELL documented that official information from the era of 1947
concerning Roswell is not forthcoming and that even when congressmen or
senators request such information, they get stonewalled or receive documents
with so much of them blacked out that they are virtually useless.

3. JESSE MARCEL, JR., SAYS THE STRANGE SYMBOLS HE SAW ON THE DEBRIS WERE
EMBOSSED ON THE METAL, NOT PRINTED ON TAPE.

Mr. Adams, I'm SORRY, but because Dr. Marcel was a child at the time he
viewed the materials has no bearing on what it was he saw.  Saying
additionally that 50 years have elapsed is equally preposterous.  Does this
mean we have to expect that whatever someone tells us about what happened
over 50 years ago is either, not accurate or that because they are so old
their memory is suspect?

4. THE DATES OF THE SECRET PROJECT MOGUL BALLOON LAUNCHES DO NOT COINCIDE
WITH THE ROSWELL INCIDENT.

Whether the launch dates coincide or not is NOT the relevant issue.  What is
relevant is that Major Jesse Marcel is being portrayed as not having the
knowledge to determine the difference between a line of crashed Mogul
balloons and a craft that he could not identify.

5. BARRY GOLDWATER TAKES THE "CRASHED SPACESHIP" EXPLANATION VERY SERIOUSLY.

Mr. Adams' argument is stating simply that Mr. Goldwater does not have
any "personal" knowledge.  Unless he can prove to me that he was in or
around Roswell, New Mexico in July of 1947, neither does he.  Also, before
I'm asked, NO, I do NOT have any "firsthand" knowledge of the event.  Like
Adams, I listen, I observe and I make tentative judgments on the data I compile.

6.  GEN. EXON SAYS IT WAS AN EXTRATERRESTRIAL CRASH WITH BODIES.

In answer to Gen. Exon's comments being "hearsay", I simply point out that
unless the physical evidence is in one's hand from ANYBODY about Roswell,
then what they are discussing is all "hearsay"  The interesting
argument however is that a top-rank officer of the United States Air Force
would publicly say such a thing.  Unless one believes the men in positions of
high military rank are stupid, you have to give them credit to have sense
enough to determine what such statements can and WILL do when issued by
people such as themselves.

7. GEN. DUBOSE SAYS THE "WEATHER BALLOON" STORY WAS CONCOCTED ON ORDERS FROM
ABOVE.

Adams finally agrees with one of the points, however a little nitpicking here
as well, unless you have firsthand intelligence of Soviet Flight Operations,
it is impossible to predict an "anticipated" Soviet bomb test with ANY type
of balloon.  You merely detect the radiation after the device has been
detonated.  The smoking gun in this situation is that General Dubose admits
that the story was CHANGED from that which was ORIGINALLY released
indicating the "capture" of a "Flying Saucer."

8. FORMER SGT. BOB DEAN SAYS HE SAW A SECRET MEMO SAYING THE MILITARY HAS
EVIDENCE OF EXTRATERRESTRIAL SPACECRAFT.

Laughing loudly.  I'll give you Adams on this one.  Unless this "Secret
Memo" was sitting in my hand, I'd have to say "Sure you did."  I would not
be inclined to call someone a liar, however, I might say they stretched the
truth a little.  However, once again, I would not make too severe a
judgment, one way or the other.

The movie "Roswell" was a very entertaining piece of fiction that had some
basis in FACT.  It's those FACTS that need to be examined and those FACTS
that will eventually become common knowledge.  In examining all of the
evidence I've been able to view, read, listen or see,  the common question
that I ask and have yet to receive an answer to is very simple.

WHAT possible MOTIVE could the men & officers of the 409th and the people in
and around Roswell, New Mexico have for claiming that a "Flying Saucer" had
crashed, and when presented with "evidence" of it being otherwise,
perpetuate that  rumour to the point of ridicule?

My THREE cents again,

David (Furry) Furlotte