UFO UpDates Mailing List
From: " Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 08:12:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:50:51 -0400
Subject: Has the Quebec Skeptics Society disbanded?
JC: Can anyone solve the following mystery?
Another month goes by and no reply from "Les Sceptiques du
Quebec." (The total is now 5 months, but... who's counting?) The
total silence is almost deafening.... But perhaps I missed a reply.
Are they all on vacation? Have they disbanded? Has the lack of
accurate knowledge displayed by one of the founders of their parent
organization, in regards to the motivations and research of Drs. J.
Allen Hynek and James McDonald, perhaps caused them to rethink their
position concerning a possible ET presence connected with UFOs?
And what of the challenge to ALL skeptics to refute the information in
the Oberg/Cooper rebuttals? Where are they? ...or do they only pick on
things they find easy to solve, ignoring certain legitimate "core"
cases researched throughout the years?
I refer to:
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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:47:20 -0500
To: updates@globalserve.net
From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Subject: UFO UpDate: A manual for sceptic militants!
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:14:08 +0100
To: updates@globalserve.net
From: John Joseph Mercieca <mufor@maltanet.omnes.net>
Subject: A manual for sceptic militants!
Forwarded from a post in the newsgroup sci.sceptic :
- forwarded message -
Pierre-Normand Houle
pnhoule@aei.ca
Hi,
I'm a member of Quebec's skeptics association (Les Sceptiques du
Quebec) affiliated to the SCICOP. Our group is growing biger (350+
members) and our members are being seen and heard often at local TV
and radio shows. More than 100 people usually come at our monthly
evening gatherings. We are soon to celebrate our 10th aniversary.
We would like to produce a manual (in French to start with) so that
our people can get a training in the ABC of skepticism. This is
specially important as more and more people speaks in the media in our
name.
In addition to some information about alternative medicines, the
paranormal, UFO's, pseudo-sciences... and such topics as :
-Science and the scientific method
-Psychological aspects of paranormal beliefs
-Epistemology...
we would like to talk about how to *BE* a Skeptic (i.e. a militant of
a Skeptics association) . So we'd like to gather information,
suggestions, tips from experienced members from other associations on
topics such as:
-How to talk in the media and in public
-What attitude to have while confrontig the believers
-How to effectively promote critical thinking
-What is the aim of skeptics associations...
Any other idea on what a skeptic should know ?
....snip....
Pierre-Normand Houle <pnhoule@aei.ca>
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JC: .....and my reply:
-Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 00:47:26 -0500
From: Pierre-Normand Houle <pnhoule@aei.ca>
Reply-To: pnhoule@aei.ca
To: rjcohen@li.net
Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: A manual for sceptic militants!
UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote:
>
> Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 06:36:39 -0500
> To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
> From: "Jerry Cohen" <rjcohen@li.net>
> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: A manual for sceptic militants!
...snip...
> James Oberg, NASA, had written an essay titled (In Search of
> Gordon Cooper's UFOs.1-3) which challenged Gordon Cooper's
> statements regarding UFOs and derided various other UFO
> researchers. The reply to it (Oberg/Cooper rebuttals.1-7), can be
> considered a manual and, most definitely, something every skeptic
> should know. Since you asked, I'll be happy to post both his essay
> and that reply.
> If you miss any portions of this, it will be archived on the web
> at:
> http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates
(J.C. Note 6/10/97: Exact location at ufomind:
http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/people/c/cohen/
or, better yet, all parts are hyper-linked at my personal website at:
http://www.li.net/~rjcohen )
> Cordially looking forward to your future response regarding same.
> Respectfully,
> Jerry Cohen
> E-mail: rjcohen@li.net
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and Pierre-Normand's original reply:
Dear Jerry Cohen,
Thanks very much for mailing this most interesting essay.
I look forward for the Oberg/Cooper rebuttals 1/7.
Only parts 1 & 2 of <In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs> made
their way to my mailbox but I found part 3 on
www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates.
Most of my colleagues read English quite well. I'm sure
they too are going enjoy and benefit from this reading.
Cincerely,
Pierre-Normand Houle
pnhoule@aei.ca
"Les Sceptiques du Quebec inc."
sceptiq@ibm.net
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JC: So, we assume they must have read at least the first Oberg
essay. The question is "Have they read my reply?" Perhaps the language
barrier is more difficult than we realize.
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....and my comments and challenge again issued last month:
From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:06:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:17:23 -0400
Subject: Re: K. Bagchus/M. Hendriks/"Les Sceptiques du Quebec"
....snip....
When a researcher gives you information that
can be checked, any reader can explore it. If sources are properly
given, that person can discover its accuracy or lack of it and fully
investigate the topic on his/her own. These are steps anyone must
follow to determine the "truthfulness" of any subject and the
information any researcher must supply to support his investigation.
For those new to the list, this is what I attempted to do when I
created the website http://www.li.net/~rjcohen
I believe I have succeeded. So far, NO SKEPTIC has refuted the
information in the Oberg/Cooper rebuttals. The "checkable"
information there is fully footnoted & thoroughly researched.
If the following quote excerpt from CNI News attributed to James Oberg
is accurate, **
"I am a lifelong UFO buff, a founding fellow of CSICOP
and longtime associate of Phil Klass, a colleague and
friend of J. A. Hynek from Northwestern days, am
fascinated with the folklore aspects of the UFO beliefs
in our culture, and a specialist in spaceflight operations,
both American and Russian...
Mr. Oberg's essays and the rebuttals expose great ignorance on the
part of "one of the founding fellows" of CSICOP regarding J. Allen
Hynek, James McDonald and their research, and gives solid data
gleaned from those "slandered researchers" regarding the validity
of some UFOs as probable ET craft.
Any thoughtful, analytical, researching person can draw his/her own
conclusions concerning what I have said by simply exploring and
digging into what is there. This researcher has also issued an open
challenge to ALL skeptics to refute the information therein. Until
they do so in a reasonable manner acceptable to most, this author
firmly believes that Hynek's and McDonald's work is unequivocal and
"the case for some UFOs, as most probably being non-terrestrial craft,
was proven years ago."
Respectfully,
Jerry Cohen
Email: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen
P.S. Was hoping to hear from "Les Sceptiques du Quebec inc." You've
had this in your possession for 4 months (J.C. 7/20/97 .. now 5), were
interested at the time, but nothing from you yet. I mailed the "3rd
Oberg essay" and my "Oberg/Cooper rebuttals.1-7" to you a second time
immediately after receipt of the letter below. Hopefully, the interior
linkages now provided within the essays themselves, found in the
website above, will make it even easier to analyze. Since I've tried
my best to have it wide open for analysis, it is earnestly hoped you
would reciprocate in a likewise manner.
This researcher had reasoned that in 7 essays, he probably made some
mistakes somewhere, would therefore possibly have to adjust what he
wrote, and that the esteemed members of your group would perhaps be
able to help him find any major problems with it.
Sincerely,
J.C.
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JC 7/21/97: Pierre-Normand, does your silence mean your group
accepts the majority of the researched information in the Oberg/Cooper
rebuttals? We don't have to do this all at once. We can take one essay
at a time.
Respectfully,
Jerry Cohen
Email: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@li.net>
Website: http://www.li.net/~rjcohen
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