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From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 07:53:25 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 10:36:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli Greetings List, EBK, Bob, and Rebecca: As a preface to this "rant," let me state, to make it perfectly clear, that I consider the "autopsy film" to be a hoax, Ray Santilli to be a charlatan, and many of the characters that have been riding along on his coat tails in this time-wasting, UFOlogy-damaging fiasco to be either incredibly naive or incredibly perjurious. This is my steadfast OPINION. My reasons are manifold, and have been laid out so many times that I deem it unnecessary to get THAT thread rolling again. I would have loved for the "autopsy film" to have been real. In fact, when we began investigating it in the beginning, we were doing so in the hopes of producing concrete evidence in support of it. But the deeper that we, and MANY, MANY other very capable investigators dug, the shallower the story became. Let it suffice that I, along with my partner Bill Ralls, and in collaboration with Rebecca, WASTED a couple of years examining and researching as many facets of this "story" as we could, and I feel now that I would have done better spending that time on more productive and gratifying avenues of research. All leads went in circles, no concrete evidence was ever produced, and no proponent ever surfaced with credible (once examined) statements to the validity of the entire affair. It was an exercise in futility, and was, as Don Ecker has so eloquently called it, a "dog and pony show." I consider the ET hypothesis to be valid and worthy, but it distresses me that the product of hucksters and con men have so consistently been allowed to intermix with reputable work. With that said, I'm sure I'll get bombarded with personal e-mail deriding me for being a "debunker," as usual. (Eyes rolling.) Let it flow. No mail without substance will be answered, or even taken seriously, I will say up front. Now, to the point... >From: XianneKei@aol.com >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:24:03 -0400 (EDT) >To: updates@globalserve.net >Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli >From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com> >Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:22:13 -0400 >Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:02:57 -0400 >Subject: Sims, Leir and Santilli BS> Anyway, my question in all of this is why couldn't Sims and BS> Leir just tell the simple and straight truth about how they BS> got the film instead of manufacturing this weird tale. By Greetings, Bob! You may remember me from our meeting at the 1996 Ozark UFO Conference in Arkansas. To jog your memory, I'm the rather round fellow that rode up from Texas in the RV with Bill Ralls and Jim Marrs. If I may, I would put forth the same question, as you relate above, to Ray! (wink) RS>How could we even determine who IS telling the truth: Ray or L&S? As has so often and resolutely been demonstrated, the quality of the messenger comes into play here, and in this particular case, it would seem that the answer might be: NONE OF THE ABOVE! BS> doing so, they have cast in doubt any results they might BS> later get from analysis of the film. And, I note that they BS> have yet to say just who it is who is doing this analysis, BS> and just what they hope to discover from analyzing copy film. But isn't this just a replay of a scenario that we have already seen, in regard to film testing? This whole thing leaves me with a feeling of deja vu, as the question of testing and validation was never adequately addressed from ANY resource. What is the difference between L&S and their jumping on this bandwagon, in relation to, for instance, Ray and yourself? Apparently the results, if there ever are any, will be basically the same. RS>Frankly Bob, I don't understand what L&S had hoped to RS>accomplish by having the film tested and giving the result RS>ONLY to Ray Santilli? It will accomplish nothing. It will prove nothing. It will, once again, just be a platform for "researchers" to spout from, while offering no valid evidential material. What the heck is wrong with this picture, folks? As a matter of fact, this isn't even a dog and pony show... Since it is a couple of "researchers" jumping on a wagon that has already demonstrated that it has square wheels and goes nowhere, instead of having the imagination to invent their own scenario, let's call it a "gnat and flea" show. RS>Did they do this just so they could RS>know the results themselves? Do they think they are doing RS>the UFO community any favors by analyzing the film and RS>presenting the results to Ray? What exactly is to be RS>accomplished by that? Rebecca, budette, you ask such poignant, direct questions! That's what I like about you. No BS, all content. You KNOW the answers to those questions, but you pull them out in the light for others to consider. Salut! Folks, why do we even give credence to the likes of those that muddy up Ufology's waters? Why do we waste valuable time giving airspace to characters that have, more than once, demonstrated that they have nothing credible to contribute to the field? Okay, I'm climbing down, the soap box is now clear and ready for anyone else that would care to ascend. "They talk in circles... The only way to believe is to listen in circles!" -- Quoting myself from the '96 Ozark Conference Glenn Joyner Dallas ******************************************** ** Visit : http://ufo-world.simplenet.com ** ** It's a SERIOUS look at UFO phenomena ** ********************************************
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