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Location: Mothership -> UFO -> Updates -> 1997 -> Sep -> Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli

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Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli

From: Glenn Joyner <infohead@airmail.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 07:53:25 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 10:36:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli

Greetings List, EBK, Bob, and Rebecca:

As a preface to this "rant," let me state, to make it perfectly
clear, that I consider the "autopsy film" to be a hoax, Ray
Santilli to be a charlatan, and many of the characters that
have been riding along on his coat tails in this time-wasting,
UFOlogy-damaging fiasco to be either incredibly naive or
incredibly perjurious. This is my steadfast OPINION.  My reasons
are manifold, and have been laid out so many times that I deem
it unnecessary to get THAT thread rolling again.

I would have loved for the "autopsy film" to have been real. In
fact, when we began investigating it in the beginning, we were
doing so in the hopes of producing concrete evidence in support
of it.  But the deeper that we, and MANY, MANY other very capable
investigators dug, the shallower the story became.

Let it suffice that I, along with my partner Bill Ralls, and in
collaboration with Rebecca, WASTED a couple of years examining
and researching as many facets of this "story" as we could, and
I feel now that I would have done better spending that time on
more productive and gratifying avenues of research.  All leads
went in circles, no concrete evidence was ever produced, and
no proponent ever surfaced with credible (once examined) statements
to the validity of the entire affair.  It was an exercise in
futility, and was, as Don Ecker has so eloquently called it,
a "dog and pony show."

I consider the ET hypothesis to be valid and worthy, but it
distresses me that the product of hucksters and con men have
so consistently been allowed to intermix with reputable work.

With that said, I'm sure I'll get bombarded with personal e-mail
deriding me for being a "debunker," as usual.  (Eyes rolling.)
Let it flow.  No mail without substance will be answered, or even
taken seriously, I will say up front.

Now, to the point...

>From: XianneKei@aol.com
>Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 10:24:03 -0400 (EDT)
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: Sims, Leir and Santilli

>From: BOB SHELL <76750.2717@compuserve.com>
>Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 09:22:13 -0400
>Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:02:57 -0400
>Subject: Sims, Leir and Santilli

BS> Anyway, my question in all of this is why couldn't Sims and
BS> Leir just tell the simple and straight truth about how they
BS> got the film instead of manufacturing this weird tale.  By

Greetings, Bob!  You may remember me from our meeting at the
1996 Ozark UFO Conference in Arkansas.  To jog your memory, I'm
the rather round fellow that rode up from Texas in the RV with
Bill Ralls and Jim Marrs.

If I may, I would put forth the same question, as you relate
above, to Ray!  (wink)

RS>How could we even determine who IS telling the truth: Ray or L&S?

As has so often and resolutely been demonstrated, the quality of the
messenger comes into play here, and in this particular case, it
would seem that the answer might be: NONE OF THE ABOVE!

BS> doing so, they have cast in doubt any results they might
BS> later get from analysis of the film.  And, I note that they
BS> have yet to say just who it is who is doing this analysis,
BS> and just what they hope to discover from analyzing copy film.

But isn't this just a replay of a scenario that we have already
seen, in regard to film testing?  This whole thing leaves me
with a feeling of deja vu, as the question of testing and
validation was never adequately addressed from ANY resource.
What is the difference between  L&S and their jumping on this
bandwagon, in relation to, for instance, Ray and yourself?
Apparently the results, if there ever are any, will be basically
the same.

RS>Frankly Bob, I don't understand what L&S had hoped to
RS>accomplish by having the film tested and giving the result
RS>ONLY to Ray Santilli?

It will accomplish nothing.  It will prove nothing.  It will,
once again, just be a platform for "researchers" to spout
from, while offering no valid evidential material.  What the
heck is wrong with this picture, folks?

As a matter of fact, this isn't even a dog and pony show...
Since it is a couple of "researchers" jumping on a wagon that
has already demonstrated that it has square wheels and goes
nowhere, instead of having the imagination to invent their
own scenario, let's call it a "gnat and flea" show.

RS>Did they do this just so they could
RS>know the results themselves? Do they think they are doing
RS>the UFO community any favors by analyzing the film and
RS>presenting the results to Ray? What exactly is to be
RS>accomplished by that?

Rebecca, budette, you ask such poignant, direct questions!
That's what I like about you.  No BS, all content.  You KNOW
the answers to those questions, but you pull them out in the
light for others to consider.  Salut!

Folks, why do we even give credence to the likes of those
that muddy up Ufology's waters?  Why do we waste valuable
time giving airspace to characters that have, more than once,
demonstrated that they have nothing credible to contribute
to the field?

Okay, I'm climbing down, the soap box is now clear and ready
for anyone else that would care to ascend.

"They talk in circles...  The only way to believe is to
listen in circles!" -- Quoting myself from the '96 Ozark Conference

Glenn Joyner
Dallas


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