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From: Tim Matthews <matthews@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 05:02:44 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:46:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Walt's Woes - The Decline of MUFON


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>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Walt's Woes - The Decline of MUFON
>Date: 25 August 1998 15:06

>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: P-1947: Walt's Woes - The Decline of MUFON
>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:23:56 -0400
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>

>>From: Nick Humphries <nick@the-den.clara.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: P-1947: Walt's Woes - The Decline of MUFON
>>Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:06:08 GMT

>>The fact is that time is ufology's worst enemy - many 'landmark'
>>cases are now solved or very close to being solved as more and
>>more information comes out. For fear of stepping on many
>>high-profile researchers on this list, I'll only give these as
>>examples:

>>- the Thomas Mantell incident...

>Most people have agreed on this one for much longer than since
>the 1980s.

>As for the rest of the cited cases, while they may have received
>a lot of publicity, they have contributed little or nothing to
>ufology, and frankly wouldn't be considered 'landmark' cases.
>Now Socorro, or Levelland, or Exeter... well, those are landmark
>cases, and they remain as unsolved today as they did when
>witnessed.

Not to mention Rendlesham, Cracoe Fell (a big case in the UK
during the 1980s) and every one of the half-decent triangular
'UFO' cases that relate only to military aircraft.

Belgium has also been solved to my satisfaction - an LTA test
vehicle operating from the UK. The McMinnville case we now
believe very strongly was a flight of a jet-powered 'flying
pancake' as was the Rouen photographic case of 1954.

Hudson Valley - LTA again!

As to jet-powered pancakes what do you think Rhoads photographed
in Arizona in 1947? I have a very interesting Project Sign
report of a very obvious jet-powered pancake-type aircraft from
1948.

>>The 'big cases' are falling apart, the 'little cases' aren't
>>that sensational, and until something 'big' happens, ufology is,
>>quite frankly, in deep-shit.

>Frankly, I have yet to see a bunch of researchers or interested
>persons walking around, heads hanging, muttering... "Oh, no, not
>Mantell... not Rendlesham... not Roswell - this breaks the back
>of ufology!"

We welcome identification of objects, demystifcation of UFOs...

>And, I don't see people doing that at MUFON meetings either.

Well MUFON is an alien believers club.....or isn't it?

>What I do see is that the "believers" don't need an
>investigative group, so MUFON doesn't do anything for them; they
>really want some sort of "we all believe together" new age
>encounter group. Unfortunately, a lot of those folks are in
>MUFON, and they are trying to turn it into what they want.

>The rational and scientifically inclined only have to attend one
>MUFON chapter meeting. They'll find someone wailing about the
>Face on Mars or that the US Government is trying to assassinate
>them because they know too much about UFOs, or trumpeting Corso,
>or talking about their mysterious 374th bedroom abduction or the
>strange mark on their arm. It will be a short time before they
>leave and decide this whole mess isn't worth being associated
>with. Those who grit their teeth and hang in certainly aren't
>going to invite anyone rational to join - it would be
>embarrassing to have acted as a reference.

Don't for one minute think that this is exclusively a US
problem.

In the UK a major reason that more people leave Ufology, in my
three years experience is entirely because the fringe loonies
run Ufology as a religion and NOT as a research based operation.

Research does not mean reading a few books and trotting out
their conclusions.

It means visitng the PRO, investigating cases, writing reports
etc etc. Over here about a dozen people do this whilst the rest
sit in smoke-filled rooms planning their next Conference.

Many UFO groups in the UK almost require you to have seen a UFO
and to have experienced an abduction! If you haven't or you
disagree with the mini-charismatics in charge your days are
numbered....

>I also don't see people walking around going "this isn't very
>interesting anymore", and I think the controversies on the mail
>lists don't suggest that either.

>>And it's no use crying about the fact that most of mainstream
>>science ignores the subject - look at yourselves and you'll see
>>why. All the researchers are divided according to pet theories,
>>there is no 'universal truth', there are no standards to speak
>>of and there is no policing of the whole field. Get your house
>>in order, stop bickering and try and find the common ground as
>>this (if there is any) will probably bear the most fruit.

Exactly and look at the unwillingness of Ufology to finally
admit that the military has been using Ufology for decades in
order to have a ready made excuse for the
testing/operation/experiments with new types of aircraft and
propulsion systems...

>I'm getting really tired of the whining about the state of
>ufology, not that anyone probably cares. But, if you don't like
>the state of it, do something on your own to improve it. Stop
>nattering on about "cleaning house" or silencing the whackos.
>Instead, outproduce them. Produce as much good research as they
>produce dreck, and then produce more. If someone comes along
>with wild eyed theories, hold them to a standard of proof. If
>they can't meet it, everyone will know what they are.

But they just ignore it because this is belief in action.

>The problem isn't the absence of a "universal truth", it's that
>people keep expecting one. The answer to this problem isn't
>going to be handed to us, the theories to explain small parts
>have to be proven before the big global theories, and the real,
>hard, down in the trenches analysis and research has to be done,
>but isn't being done enough. Frankly theories like PNH, CSH, and
>even ETH are still premature - they're like doing cosmology
>before doing physics.

Perhaps ideology is a universal problem.....?

>There are enough possibilities for experimental, statistical and
>quantitative research to keep even amateur scientists busy well
>into the next millenium. But there's a certain fear of
>committing to that kind of work, and it's sad. Especially when
>you realize we don't need multi-million dollar particle
>accelerators or radio detectors to do it.

>>Some sort of unification is the key, otherwise the subject is
>>doomed to the fringe for the forseeable future.

>What, make an organization bigger and more heterogenous than
>MUFON? That's supposed to attract people to ufology?

No; have no organisation and learn to think for yourself!

>I don't think so.

>Make bigger and more global theories and punish the heretics
>with stoning? I don't think so.

No, just burn copies of 'Top Secret/Majic'. Sorry, that's not
funny.

I really don't mean it!!!