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From: DRudiak@aol.com [David Rudiak]
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:13:54 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:51:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

>From: KRandle993@aol.com [Kevin Randle]
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:31:21 EST
>Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:25:58 -0500
>Subject: Re: Some Questions about Your Book on Roswell

C. Bond Johnson wrote that he was misquoted in the Randle/Schmitt book:

>>"THE BOND JOHNSON FACTOR ...At that time I was briefed on the
>>idea that it was not a flying disc as reported but in fact was a
>>weather balloon that had crashed....  Almost the first thing that
>>Ramey said was, "Oh, we've found out what it is, and you know,
>>it's a weather balloon." p. 125.

>>FACT: I have been quoted in the past as making statements similar
>>to these. There is no basis in fact as to these remarks, I never
>>have made any such statements since this does not in any way
>>coincide with any recollections or records that I have of my
>>visit to General Ramey's office on 7/8/47.

Kevin Randle replied:

>I wonder if he would like to hear the tape again. Not only did he
>make comments similar to these, there are exactly what he said. I
>have the tapes with the comments and I was careful in the
>transcription because this was at the time that Moore and
>Shandera were talking about their new star witness. At that point
>Johnson moved from having seen only a weather balloon to having
>photographed the real debris. But the point is, I have the
>comments on audio tape and know exactly what he said. When
>confronted with that information, he stuttered and evaded, but
>had no answer, accusing me of getting the quotes wrong.

>What he said to me, once again on tape is, "I posed General Ramey
>with this debris. At that time I was briefed on the idea that it
>was not a flying disk as first reported but in fact was a weather
>balloon that had crashed."

I side with Kevin Randle on this one.  Johnson's original quote
that Ramey was telling him it was a weather balloon is, in fact,
completely backed up by contemporaneous news accounts.  On the
other hand, his more recent statements that Ramey didn't put out
a weather balloon story until after he (Johnson) had returned to
his newspaper office doesn't seem to be supported by documentary
evidence.

That this debate has become somewhat acrimonious is unfortunate,
because overall Johnson seems quite open to finding out what
happened that day and even accepts the possibility that there
could have been a UFO crash that was covered up.  He isn't a
knee-jerk debunker.

First of all, it's important to establish a basic timeline of
what happened. Surviving wire messages indicate that the original
AP wire story on the press release went out at 12:26 pm, Roswell
time, or 1:26 in Fort Worth and 2:26 in Washington.  Johnson
remembers being called out to the base at around 4:00 pm and
being admitted to Ramey's office at around 4:30 pm (Fort Worth
time). That leaves roughly three hours between the press release
and when Johnson took his photos.  A lot happened in those three
hours.

The N.Y. Times reported:


Celestrial crockery had the Army up in the air for several hours
yesterday before an Army officer explained that what a colleague
thought was "a flying disk" was nothing more than a battered Army
weather balloon.  (The "Army officer obviously refers to weather
officer Irving Newton)


...WITHIN AN HOUR after Lt. Haught (sic) had given new impetus to
the "flying saucer" derby, his boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey, had
a somewhat different different version of the flying disk.

He said that while it was true it had been seen on a ranch, no
one had seen it in the air; it was "of flimsy construction."
apparently made "of some sort of tin foil."  ...In Washington,
Lieut. Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg, Deputy Chief of the Army Air Forces,
hurried to his headquarters' press section....


Similarly, Dick Pearce of the San Francisco Examiner wrote:


The Army Air Force sent a shiver of excitement across a
saucer-conscious Nation yesteday with the announcemnt that an
actual flying disc had been found... Not until three hours later
did the saucer shatter on the rock of hard fact...

Lt. Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg, deputy chief of the AAF, hurried to the
AAF press section in Washington and personally took charge as
newspapers and wire services clamored for details....

WITHIN AN HOUR telephone lines into sparse New Mexico were
jammed... (The Examiner did not call Sheriff Wilcox.  Surmising
that the find had been flown to Brig. Gen. Roger M. Ramey ... The
Examiner telephoned him.  FIRST TO REACH HIM, The Examiner got a
complete description of the "disc" from him, together with HIS
EXPRESSED SUSPICION THAT IT WAS JUST PART OF A WEATHER BALLOON.
His description tallied with that of radar reflectors sent up
every day at Oakland.

(As a result, The Examiner was able to give a prosaic name to the Army's
saucer LONG BEFORE the Army itself corrected the boner of its public
relations officer at Roswell.)

A weather officer attached to the base weather station at Fort
Worth inally was called in, took one look at the tangled mess of
aluminum foil, strings, and wood and made definite
identification.

Plans to fly it to the AAF laboratories at Wright Field, Dayton,
Ohio, were abandoned promptly.


DISAVOWAL -- General Ramey went on the radio to quiet the
furor....  etc.

And the Washington Post wrote:


For three hectic hours last night, the Army Air Forces ...
thought it actually had possession of one of those fabulous
"flying saucers."  ...The mysterious will-o'the-wisp really
exists -- so said an announcement from Roswell Army Airfield's
public relations officer.  Then a few hours later and nearly two
days after the "disc" had been in official hands, it was rudely
exposed as an imposter.


Rushed from Roswell to Eighth Air Force Headquarters at Fort
Worth, Tex., by B-29, it puzzled AAF officers there.  They were
about to fly it on to the Army's experimental center at Wright
Field when an Army warrant officer [Irving Newton ] identified
the object.  It was part of a box - kite type of weather balloon
used by United States Weather Bureau and Army meteorological
stations all over the country.


But then the story went on later...


....Under the personal direction of Lieut. Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg,
acting AAF chief, who dropped into the Washington, AAF public
information headquarters in the midst of the excitement, they
burned up the wires to Texas and New Mexico.

They got from Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey ... a description of the
object.  It was "of very flimsy construction -- almost like a
box-kite", made of wood and with a  cover "like  tinfoil."...

RAMEY SAID HE HADN'T ACTUALLY SEEN IT HIMSELF AS YET.  HE WENT TO
TAKE A LOOK, AND CALLED BACK THAT IT WAS ABOUT 25 FEET IN
DIAMETER.  He said he was shipping it on to Wright Field, Ohio,
but would have one of his meteorological officers look at it
first...


Let's put these stories together.  The N.Y. Times says Ramey was
putting out a different version "within an hour" calling the
device flimsy and made of fin foil.  The S.F. Examiner also
suggests that they contacted Ramey "within an hour," and they
were the first to reach him, even before Vandenberg and his
people in Washington.  The Examiner, however, clearly has Ramey
saying that it was part of a weather balloon, and further
suggests that Ramey was also using the radar target explanation
at this time.  This was also obviously well BEFORE Irving Newton,
the meteorological officer, was ordered to Ramey's office to put
his official stamp of approval on Ramey's story.

In all three stories, Gen. Vandenberg is also mentioned as
putting in a brief appearance at the Pentagon public relations
office.  When could Vandenberg have done this?  His secretary's
diary details a crowded afternoon schedule of appointment and
phone calls.  However, a preplanned meeting with Air Marshall
Goddard at 3:00 on "4 subjects," however, does not appear to have
been kept, since there is no summary of the meeting, as there are
for other appointments and phone calls of the day.  Thus, there
is possibly a short gap in Vandenberg's schedule, from 3:10 to
3:25 PM, enough time for Vandenberg to have ducked into the
Pentagon press room and put in his reported appearance. This is
"within an hour" of the press release, in line with the news
stories.

At that point, calls were made to Ramey from the Pentagon press
room.  Ramey first describes the flimsy boxkite made of wood and
tinfoil,  but then says "he hadn't actually seen it yet."  Then
the Washington Post reports that "he went to take a look, and
called back that it was about 25 feet in diameter."

There are two remarkable things in that statement.  First of all,
Marcel had yet to arrive from Roswell with the real debris.  He
was still airborn.  So how could Ramey go take a look at
something that wasn't there?  And second, Ramey claims the
boxkite was "25 feet in diameter."  In fact, this strange
description was still being put out by Army public relations
people into the night.  Yet there was nothing in the Fort Worth
photos, balloon or radar reflector, that was anything like "25
feet in diameter."  Again, this indicates that the object Ramey
was claiming to have just looked at was nothing but a creation of
his own imagination.  The real debris simply wasn't there to be
looked at.

Finally,  here is an  interesting description of events I found
in the little known newspaper, New York PM:


Higher headquarters proved to be Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey... who
had the Roswell "saucer" last night and was preparing to ship it
to the laboratory at Dayton, Ohio, because still higher
authorities had so ordered.

RAMEY SAID HE COULDN'T LET ANYBODY LOOK AT THE THING OR
PHOTOGRAPH  IT BECAUSE WASHINGTON HAD CLAMPED A "SECURITY LID" ON
ALL BUT THE SKETCHIEST DETAILS.

"The object," he said, "is in my office right now, and as far as
I can see there is nothing to get excited about.  It looks to me
LIKE THE REMANT OF A WEATHER BALLOON AND A RADAR REFLECTOR."


Here Ramey is very EXPLICITY calling it a singular weather
balloon and a radar reflector.  And also note that he says he
hadn't let anybody see or photograph it yet.  So this statement
also had to have been made BEFORE Johnson took his photos or
weather officer Newton made his identification.

In summary,  Ramey likely started putting out the weather
balloon/radar reflector story within an hour of the infamous
press release, well before (like 2 hours before) reporter Johnson
ever stepped into Ramey's office, and even before Marcel arrived
in Fort Worth with the real debris.  Under the circumstances, it
is hard to believe that Ramey also would not have told Johnson of
the weather balloon/radar target explanation.  He was certainly
telling other members of the press this story before Johnson got
there.

One wonders what happened to make Johnson change his mind about
all this and start accusing Kevin Randle of misrepresenting his
original testimony.

David Rudiak