UFO UpDates Mailing List
From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:39:05 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:36:18 -0500
Subject: {87} part 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network
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U K / / // ___/ / / ' Jan 11th, 1998
/ / // / / / / N E T W O R K part 1 Issue 87
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The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
subscribers in over 40 countries.
This issue comes in 4 parts. If any part is missing please mail:
ufo@holodeck.demon.co.uk giving the issue number. The issue will be
reposted to you. Please put the details as below in the subject
section e.g. Repost {87} part 1, part 2, part 3 or part 4.
In this issue:
Editorial
---------
Graham W. Birdsall uk.ufo.nw special guest on IRC
United Kingdom News
-------------------
[UK 1] RAF Cosford security tightened
[UK 2] Cornwall plans for eclipse in 1999
[UK 3] 'Eclipse disaster' summit today
[UK 4] Lights plague Cornwall's South West Peninsular
[UK 5] UFO sighting over Bury, Lancashire
[UK 6] Saucer landing spot will suit you to a tea
[UK 7] Spies like US
World News
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[W 1] (Mexico) Mexican snow
[W 2] Jetliners encounter over New Jersey
[W 3] Fireball in sky being called UFO - Chicago
[W 4] NASA Looks Toward Visionary Interstellar Travel
[W 5] Tail-less Fighter Flight Tests Complete
[W 6] Hawaiian estate offered for Heaven's Gate suicide site
[W 7] American Computer Company Makes A Remarkable Discovery!
[W 8] Jack Shulman Exposes Hidden Ultra-Secret ET Military
Organisation
[W 9] Most Americans think there's life on other planets
[W 10] NASA flouts Einstein, explores feasibility of interstellar
journeys
[W 11] Lunar Prospector blasts off
Letters
-------
A request for information
Book serialisation
------------------
A FEARFUL SYMMETRY
A TRUE STORY OF ALIEN INTRUSION INTO HUMAN LIVES
By D. Lynne Bishop
Editorial
=========
On Saturday 10th January 1998 UK.UFO.NW were very honoured to have
on it's IRC (internet relay chat) #UFO channel Graham W. Birdsall
editor of the highly popular UK periodical 'UFO Magazine'. UFO
Magazine has 140,000 readers in over 36 countries.
The 70 visitors to the channel came from as far or as near as:
Sweden : Iceland : UK : USA : Isle of Man (UK) : Northern Island :
Germany : Netherlands
We would like to thank Graham for his patience and perseverance
during the week leading up the meeting. Not everything went to plan.
Graham was good enough to drive to his office's at Quest Publications
to connect. When you consider he did this at 11pm (UK time) at night,
he put himself out for us. We were all most grateful.
Our thanks also to Andrew Metcalf, UFO Magazine's web creator for
sorting irc programs out at Graham's end.
Further thanks go to Crow & Raine for making an excellent job of
moderating the meeting and also to Paul_J for whom without the
meeting would not have been possible on that night. Hackers took a
hand in trying to shut down the irc servers used by our channel
throughout the world. Paul_J worked his fingers to the bone getting
everything back on line and keeping it that way.
The log of the meeting is below.
Readers are reminded that we have Dan Sherman author of Above Black
Project Preserve Destiny as our special guest on Saturday 31st
January. Further details will be posted shortly.
---
Graham Birdsall on the UK-UFO-NW IRC #UFO Channel
This is a cleaned up log, of the United Kingdom UFO Network's
Saturday 10th January 1998 IRC meeting on #UFO with guest Graham
Birdsall editor of the UK's UFO Magazine. Graham kindly gave up a
couple of hours of his spare time to answer some questions for the
visitors to the channel. Below you will find a list of questions that
were asked along with his replies. The name in between the < >'s e.g.
<Lloydy> is the nick name of the IRC user asking the question and
where you see <Graham> is of course the start of Graham's reply.
CREDITS:
We would like to thank Dave_UFO for arranging this meeting with
Graham Birdsall.
We would like to thank Graham for attending this meeting and
answering the questions put to him.
We would like to thank all the people involved in asking questions.
We would like to thank everyone who attended the meeting.
We would like to thank Crow & Raine for moderating the meeting
Session Start: Sat Jan 10 23:12:21 1998
*** Crow sets mode: +o Graham
<Dave_UFO> Hello everyone and welcome to the UK.UFO.NW -IRC- UFO
channel. We are very honoured to have with us tonight our special
guest Graham Birdsall. Graham is the editor of the highly popular
publication 'UFO Magazine'.
<Dave_UFO> Raine's busy typing. We'll be there in a sec.
<Graham> Roger that, perhaps if I end with GWB rather than ?? it
might help you GWB
*** Raine sets mode: +m
<Dave_UFO> Graham: Thats great thanks.
<Dave_UFO> Ok Raine - are we ready?
<Crow> ok we are nearly ready Graham when you have answered the
questions would you plz type ?? to indicate you are ready for the
next question
<Graham> How about GWB
<Crow> GWB will be fine thanks.
<Raine> This channel is now being moderated, please /msg raine or
crow with your questions and NOT Graham
<Dave_UFO> We have had a few hiccups over the last week, preparing
Graham to be with us tonight. I would certainly like to thank him for
his patience and perseverance and also Andrew Metcalf who got the
connection going at Graham's end. Graham has certainly put himself
out for us tonight as he has actually had to go into his offices at
Quest Publications to be with us.
<Dave_UFO> Graham we thank you for being here and hope that you
enjoy this evening as I'm sure we will.
<Graham> Thanks GWB
<Crow> #ufo2 is open for discussion if you want to join
<Raine> Graham are you gpoing to give us a quick introduction please
before we start with the questions?
<Graham> Well, it's been a long day so I don't want to bore anyone,
but I've been in this subject now for 31 years and the enthusiasm is
still there to get at the answers GWB
<Raine> <CoolNess> First I'd like to say Hi and welcome to #ufo Mr
Birdsall. What I would like to ask is this. With reference to the
Alien Autopsy film you are on record as saying that you believe it to
be fake. Now the evidence is fairly equal as to weather its fake or
genuine so is it your instinct/gut feeling or something else that
makes you believe it (the AA) to be fake?
<Graham> Ever since Ray Santilli made his comments about seeing a
certain President in the observation window, I've expressed my
doubts. We still await independent analysis on one single frame
of the footage, not the video tape, so what more can I say?
*** Phill changes topic to "Graham Birdsall, Editior of the UK UFO
Magaine is currently the guest speaker. To ask a question, /msg it to
Raine."
<Graham> GWB
<Raine> <Tinman-BF> question for Graham - Do you believe UFOs are man
made or originate from other planets were alien species may control
them
<Graham> I'm convinced a small residue of UFOs are "not of this
world" and the evidence suggests they are intelligently controlled.
Whether these are piloted or remotely controlled is anyone's guess,
but folks have been reporting a variety of occupants for the last 50
years, and they don't look like us GWB
<Raine> <CoolNess> Graham, have you ever heard "news" first from
internet newsgroups such as Errol Bruce- Knapps excellent Global
Updates, and have you ever been tempted to print some of the
postings?
<Graham> Yes, I have indeed heard a great deal of news first time of
the Internet, and Errol's newsgroup is always interesting. Timothy
Good met with Errol while at a lecture for a military get-together in
Canada a few weeks ago and spoke highly of him GWB
<Raine> <Crow> Hi Graham thanks for joining us tonight, can you tell
us if when you recently visited Brazil, you recieved any new
information conserning the Varginha Case.
<Graham> Considerable news came out of Brasilia, not least about the
Varginha incident. I persuaded a British film crew to come to Brazil
and they will be doing a one-hour special on this case. I'll keep my
responses brief to give your questionners a fair crack GWB
<Raine> <Dave_UFO> I was seriously of the opinion that as the
year 2000 quickly approaches we were almost at the point of a
Governmental release that UFOs and aliens do actually exist. That was
until the USAF made that ridiculous statement in 1997 claiming that
the bodies found at Roswell were crash dummies. What does your vast
experience tell you. Are we any closer to learning the truth
officially?
<Graham> Any dummy can tell us dummy, said Walter Haut. The air
force have invented time travel for dummies, said Stan Friedman. The
Pentagon shot itself in the foot, and the journalists at that press
conference were sufficiently well informed about Roswell to suggest
as such. Brasilia had a senior Federal Government official open
proceedings, and two senior Brazilian Air Force officials were there
at the closing ceremony, on stage. Some governments are very
<Raine> <Bigyin> Was there any new UFO sigtings discussed at the
conference?
<Graham> Plenty, from dozens of international as well as Brazilian
researchers. The best evidence came from the Chilean representatives
(some of whom now sit on the Air Force Committee on UFOs). I saw some
staggering video tape which had many jaws (including mine) drop to
the floor. Amazing stuff and a "flying ring" that appeared in the
sky, turned-turtle, and then dropped to speed off horizontaly just a
few hundred feet above the ground. No wonder the Chile
<Crow> Graham I think you are typing a bit too much text in one go
and we are loosiing it the last words we saw was: No wonder the Chile
<Graham> Sorry - I wrote 'no wonder the Chilean AF established a
committee on UFOs GWB
<Raine> <HarryD> Mr Graham (or is this your firstname?;) ..are you
aware of the fact that many publicers today are being USED to spread
desinfo.... for instance in the case of BillyMeier ,who I know
personally, which is being defamed awfully....but who"s contacts are
real as I have personally witnessed !!<HarryD> But it seems that Kall
Korffs desinfo seems to be copied by al the publicers without
rechearching the claims of Billy being fraudulant...
<Crow> people if you are not on the Harrow.UK.EU.UltraNET.Org it
maybe a good idea to change server seems the servers are under an
attack from hackers
<Graham> Billy Meier's material is suspect because models were found
close to his Swiss home that were very similar to what appeared in
his photos and footage, but Wendelle Stevens swears by the guy.
Perhaps if Bruce Mac' got hold of the original negatives and footage,
we could make a decision one way or the other GWB
<Raine> <Tinman-BF> Q: What do you feel about the subject of
govenment secrecy
<Graham> Government secrecy on this subject is well documented, or
should I say, un-documented through the release of about 30,000
hitherto classified UFO papers. I don't believe in the worldwide
conspiracy stuff however, can you honestly see the USA in a liaison
with Iran, Iraq or Libya over this issue? GWB
<Raine> <Squeezer> Mr Graham, have their been any recent
developments on the Roswell, NM, July 1947 crash?
<Graham> <Graham> I met with Jesse Marcel Jnr in Brasilia and found
him to be a very honest and somewhat humble, shy gentleman. Jesse's
comments about his father, the material, the case in general, were
highly sincere. He was told by a high-ranking official in Washington
D.C. that Roswell happened, and was not science fiction. He repeated
that publicly in Brasilia. GWB
<Raine> <CyDoNiA> What are your thoughts and theories on the Mars and
Moon abnormalities, Mainly the Face on Mars ?
<Graham> I met with Dr. Mark Carlotto in Brasilia (had him speak for
us at Solihull UK last February). Mark told me that he had a meeting
with NASA's Global Surveyor team, they promised him and Proff.
Stanley McDaniel that everytime the space probe passes over Cydonia,
they will switch their high image cameras to maximum. That's an
exclusive for you. GWB
<Raine> <KennethA> The last I heard was that Santilli refuses to
release the film to Kodak for analysis (the original film, that is).
Doesn't this indicate to you that he's not being honest about his
claims?
<Graham> I can't possibly comment....GWB
<Raine> <Aristotl> Mr. Birdsall, in your years of investigating the
UFO phenomenon, have you noticed anything which you would describe as
peculiarly British, ie. is generally not seen outside the UK?
<Graham> Fascinating question. Need some time to ponder on that, but
my initial reaction is to say "No". What is reported by folks here in
Britain is very similar to events, incidents reported across the
globe. I have to say however that British Ufology is well thought of
and much valued overseas. GWB
<Raine> <Bigyin> what new UFO news came out of the conference in
Brazil?
<Graham> I'd be here until 6.00am answering that one. Outstanding
presentations by so many people, but the Russian Cosmonaut, Alexandr
Balandine told the packed venue that future anomalous images captured
by their cosmonauts would be shared between the Russian Space Agency,
NASA, and a Forum of UFO researchers. Alexandr spent six months on
MIR. GWB
<Raine> <Benat2> forwarded from red (~Java_New1@pool1-
18.netmatters.com) on irc.ultranet.org:<red> Hi graham,
Do u think we should be worried about the millennium.
<Graham> Only if you're hoping to see in the New Year in Edinburgh,
tickets will be hard to get...GWB
<Raine> <Dave_UFO> Wendle Stevens made a big play of the Nashville,
Tennessee UFO which you have featured. It now appears that these
photograph's were nothing more than disco lights and dry ice in some
sort of night club. Has Wendelle Stevens made any further comments on
this?
<Graham> No, he hasn't. But you are correct, the Nashville UFO pics
do appear to have been a classic set of disco lights. People who are
in the business of hoaxing take great delight in fooling the UFO
community, so we have to be constantly on our guard. It's
frustrating, and time wasting, but Wendelles in his eighties now and
I feel for the guy. GWB
<Raine> <SickBoy> Hello. What evidence do you base your magazine's
assertion that unidentified lights in the sky, are likely to be of
intelligent ET origin?
<Graham> I don't, and never have made that assertion. Go back 20
years and you will find my term of UFOs as Unconventional Flying
Objects was probably the first time such a terminology had been made.
I used it to describe RPVs and UAVs. GWB
<Raine> <minator> Graham, First of all Great mag. There have been a
few interesting developments recently: alien embryo, UFO crash
filmed, the mexican film. Do you think these are real or the work of
hoaxers & why should so much be going on at once?
<Graham> Primarily because the means to communicate such events have
improved way beyond anything that was available to us in the late 60s
and 70s. I met with Jaime Maussan in Brasilia, spent an hour
interviewing him, watched his excellent presentation. I'm now
convinced the 6 August '97 event in Mexico City did happen. Over 20
witnesses, but as for the authenticity of the video tape? Jaime told
me, and I quote: "I don't know..." He did have his reasons howe
<Crow> grayham I think you are typing a bit to much text in one go
you can answer in smaller size chunks of text if you would
<Graham> Roger that. GWB
<Raine> <GPZarquon> Question : Does Graham believe in any type of
Time Travel ?
<Graham> All things are possible, who is to say? Note the recent
soundings by astronomers who found that a black hole was distorting,
and I quote: "Time and space". Makes you think, doesn't it? GWB
<Raine> <Yelowrose> Please ask Graham if he thinks we are at war
with any beings "out there" right now? Thank you.
<Graham> Good question. Are some UFOs or their actions hostile? One
can cite numerous accounts where UFO incidents have resulted in
fatalities, especially so with pilots. David Jacobs brings out a new
book shortly entitled "The Threat" - I was with Budd Hopkins last
night attending the big live debate on Central TV, Budd think's this
book will scare the pants off a lot of people. GWB
<Raine> <Lister> Graham, what are your general thoughts about the
crop circle phenomenon? (Bearing in mind that some were obviously
hoaxes while others were less easily explainable)
<Graham> I can't tell you the number of times I'm asked this
question, especially when I travel overseas. There is virtually no
media publicity in the UK attached to crop circles, hasn't been for
years. So what incentive does that afford the hoaxers? Why spend
hours each night carving out these incredible images, when there is
no publicity? Hope you get my drift. GWB
<Raine> <Tinman-BF> Q: When and how did your interest in UFOlogy
start and have you ever sighted one ?
<Graham> Thirteen years old, back in Leeds in 1967. Saw a huge
oval-shaped object, half-sixe of the full Moon travel silently above
my parents home. Watched it go over the house then ran through the
living room into the back garden (all of 2-3 seconds). Went out,
stared up and it was nowehere to be seen. I've seen several UFOs
since, none of which fell into a bracket which I could relate to in
conventional terms. GWB
<Raine> <Dan> Graham, after the celebrations in July, many
ufologists have decided to take a new approach and are looking to a
new ufology where they search for more terrestrial answers to the ufo
phenomenon. It seems many ufologists are giving up on the
extra-terrestrial hypothesis. What is your view on this?
<Graham> I've no problem with that. I researched RPVs and UAVs years
ago. The more informed a person becomes about new aviation and space
technologies, the better understanding one has when it comes to
chipping away for answers. GWB
<Raine> <SickBoy> Do you think that Nick Pope was the best the MOD
could do when it came to investigating UFOs? Or was he just there for
the public, with the real work happening behind closed doors?
<Graham> <Graham> Nick's an interesting guy. Did he see all the UFO
reports that crossed his desk, or just a select few? I'm convinced
(and suspect he now shares this view), that many reports were kept
hidden from view. He might have come across to the UFO community as
the genuine article had he chosen to resign from office before
releasing his book, but who is to say. GWB
<Raine> <jarod> ask him if the brazil conf was video'd and if so
whens it available etc
<Graham> Yes, Brasilia was video taped, and I'm sure A.J. Gevaerd
will be releasing details of how to acquire specific tapes in the
near future. I'm hoping to not only obtain some of the Chilean
footage, but persuade British TV to air it. I'm staggered that none
of this has been broadcast on news channels around the world. GWB
<Raine> <Carnado> M.Heseman states in his german ufo-mag that chile
wants to set up a satelite (called BETA) to orbit for monitoring
ufo's, any coment on that?
<Graham> I have yet to see that claim verified, but it wouldn't
surprise me. Chile and a number of nations are concerned about the
penetration of their air space by unknown objects. Remember, its the
Chilean pilots and radar confirmation of these that went some way to
establishing the investigative committee. GWB
<Raine> <Gandalf1> how do you feel about the abduction phenomena,
have you come across any evidence that makes you think it is either
REALLY happening or not AT ALL
<Graham> That's what we discussed on Central TV last night (Friday).
Abduction experiences occur throughout the world, that much we know.
I know of a couple in Equador, two native Indians, no TV no
electrical power, neither can read. Yet they report the same
experience as other abductees. Their home is four wooden poles and a
sack-cloth for a roof. GWB
<Raine> <Bigyin> any news on any new European UFO sightings?
<Graham> Shouldn't be telling you this, but the recent "fireball"
event over Greenland was no fireball or cosmic debris. A lot of
information has surfaced about three UFO landings, one on a small
island between Greenland and Canada. Hope to have more in the next
mag. GWB
<Raine> <Carnado> Did the brasilian conferene bring forward any new
info on the Mexico 6.Aug event/film?
<Graham> Yes. Please refer to my earlier answer. Also, two witnesses
were injured by the passing UFO. One suffered water on the brain and
the other, a woman, was badly scorched on her arms. GWB
<Raine> <MJ-12> ok: what advise would you give to someone looking for
a job in the ufology field?
<Graham> Keep working to improve your knowledge about the subject.
Attain journalistic credentials, PC/MAC useage etc. We employ eight
people, it's hard work but rewarding. I guess I have spent 25 years
doing this voluntarily, so have at least acquired the knowledge, but
just go out and keep informed. GWB
<Raine> <hackit> graham as a person who has been lucky enough to
have been privy to seeing thing most of us would like to have seen
for ourselfs do you personally believe that ufos actually are from
other universes/dimemsions
<Graham> I can honestly state for the record that in my opinion,
some UFOs are indeed extraterrestrial, but from whence they cometh,
who knows. I concur with Stan Friedman, let's stop being "apologist
Ufologists". Remember, we are in a majority right now of those who
believe UFOs are real. The sceptics will always be around, but they
apply one Golden Rule: "Don't bother me with the facts, my mind's
made up." You should bother to read up on the facts, as shou
<Raine> <SickBoy> What is your opinion on the hypothesis that many
UFOs are mirages, due to a temperature inversion, of astronomical
objects below the obsever's horizon? Steuart Cambell has written an
interesting book on this subject, have you read it?
<Graham> Yes, Steuart and I go back many years and enjoy numerous
radio debates on the topic. Over 400 radar tapes have been acquired
of UFO incidents. I've spoken with many RAF radar operators who have
tracked these things. They spoke of solid objects performing way
beyond anything they had hitherto seen. Remember the Belgian radar
tape from March 1990? The UFO descended from 10,000ft to less than
500ft in less than 5 seconds. We interviewed one of the Belg
<Dave_UFO> Graham you have been typing away for over an hour. Would
you like to take a rest for a few minutes. We don't want to let you
go just yet if that's ok with you.
<Graham> Hi Dave, I'm OK until 01.00 GMT, then have to call it
quits. I'm with a film crew tomorrow at 8.30am in Cheshire to
interview a pilot who saw an FT. Need some sleep beforehand. GWB
<Dave_UFO> That's fine Graham...Thank you.
<Dave_UFO> Raine: We'll carry on.
<Raine> graham could you please type in the last bit of what you
said?
<Raine> We interviewed one of the Belg
<Crow> we goto We interviewed one of the Belg
<Crow> should be one of the Belgium ??
<Graham> Sure, I wrote that we interviewed one of the Belgian AF
pilots here in the Uk who chased that UFO during March 1990.
Everything he told us is on tape (been played at our conferences and
transcripted in UFO Magazine). It was no temperature inversion. GWB
<Crow> great thanks
<Raine> <Dave_UFO> UFO Magazine must be one of the longest running
magazine's of it's type. Just how long has it been going and how long
have you been involved with it?
<Graham> It originated from a newsletter format that was produced in
the late '70s. UFO Magazine has been around since 1981, but became a
newsstand publication in the summer of 1994, after which others have
jumped on the badwagon, but that was no surprise. At least you can
still telephone us between 9.00am and 6.00pm during the week if you
want to have a chat. GWB
<Raine> <lloydy> Graham, do you think we are getting close to some
sort of anouncment on ET life, eg, ancient Mars life or primitive
Europan etc?
<Graham> Personally, I do believe that recent soundings by Dan
Goldin at NASA, the potential for ancient evidence of life on Mars
etc, is no coincidence. NASAs "Origins" programme, initiated in
December '96 by Vice President Al Gore, has to be seen in this
context. GWB
<Raine> <MJ-12> what are your thoughts of the latest rumours that
area 51 being abandoned?
<Graham> A timely question. I'm travelling to Nevada on 2 February
and will be spending some time in and around Area 51, so should have
a better idea of the current situation. In our next issue of UFO
Magazine, we have an exclusive feature on what some believe is the
new Area 51, found by a guy who took photographs (which we will
publish) before black helicopters chased him away. GWB
<Raine> <CyDoNiA> Has there been any further Human mutilations in
Brazil. And do you know what the result of the investigations into
the subject by Brazilian authorities?
<Graham> I'm not aware of any substantive new evidence suggesting
there have been any new human mutilations in Brazil, but this is a
highly sensitive issue, probably one of THE most sensitive in
Ufology. We are familiar with other cases, but that's all I can say
on the matter. GWB
<Raine> <CoolNess> Graham, with reference to my first question about
the AA, it is fairly well known that the sheriff of Roswell ( I'm
afraid I've forgot his name) looked fairly similar to the then
president Truman, and the sheriff would have a fairly valid reason to
be overseeing the autopsy, could it not be him?
<Graham> The question is valid, but I have to come back to my
initial comment: We have yet to see a solitary 16mm frame of the
original autopsy footage put in the hands of an independent analyst.
The red stop light should have been switched on at the outset, but
for reasons best known to those most closely involved with the
'footage', it was not done so. GWB
<Raine> <AlienCity> Graham, Have you ever felt you were being
directly manipulated by any 'outside forces' to put over any specific
views or opinions on ufo stories/info in your magazine?
<Raine> <Graham> Some very good questions here tonight, and this
is no exception. Yes, is my answer, but most times I can weed
these out. I'm a free spirit in this subject and because of that
am considered dangerous in some quarters, or so I have been told.
However, I've told NSA people (who have visited our offices many
time - Menwith Hill is but 4 miles away), that I'm also aware of
sensitive issues. GWB
<Raine> -AstroJoe- Please ask Graham if '95 & '96 have been
exceptional years for UFO sightings, including reports of crashes
(compared to say 15 years before that).
<Graham> 1996 produced the largest number of UFO reports in the UK
seen in 25 years. Alleged UFO crashes have also risen in frequency,
but Varginha is certainly one that I would recommend folks read
about. GWB
-[continued in part 2]-
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