UFO UpDates Mailing List
From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:51:08 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 00:06:13 -0500
Subject: Luc Buergin's article [Was: Jim Dilettoso]
>From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch)
>Date: 10 Mar 98 23:36:00 +0000
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Re:Dilettoso<-->Korff<-->Meier<-->Jansen
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 23:40:45 +0100
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>From: Jeroen Jansen <jj4747@dds.nl>
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Jim Dilettoso Finally Exposed for Good?
Jeroen wrote:
>>[...]
>>I will take Meier's or Korff's claims and explanations for
>>granted _only_ if they are able to support their claims and
>>explanations with _irrefutable_evidence_. Korff obviously can't
>>back his Meier hoax claim with irrefutable evidence
>Dear Jeroen,
>Maybe I can help here. Some time ago, we posted the following
>article here to the list. Please read on:
>--------------------Posted on: Date: 30 Mar 97 20:36:00 GMT----------
>Subject: Billy Meier - Another Guru's Finale
>Hello!
>It seems that we can drain another quagmire to prevent future
>desasters in case "some Pleiadians" again command to "leave the
>containers".
If a piece like this goes unanswered, it is because those of us
who have looked into the Meier case in depth don't believe there
are many on this list so credulous as to believe the claims that
Luc Buergin made. At this point, the poster (Koch?) seems to
have gotten Meier's contactors mixed up with the Hale-Bopp
group's leader. But perhaps Buergin has enough credibility to be
able to influence some others by what he claims, so here is a
response.
>We can achieve this by exposing the gurus of this world by
>bringing bright light into these dark corners of our reality and
>spreading the information about these beings all over the planet
>- and beyond.
>So did Luc Buergin in the latest issue of the German UFO-KURIER
>(NO. 30) with his article:
>"Kalliope Meier bricht ihr Schweigen" (Transl.:" Kalliope Meier
>speaks out"
>Nearly one year ago, Swiss author and UFO researcher Luc Burgin
>reported about his doubts in the case of Billy Meier. He caused
>a real flood of controversial reactions. I have read what was
>published about Meier's reaction - again nothing else than the
>well-known unpleasant verbal injuries.
Here we keep in mind that if Buergin's claims are false, and
Meier knows them to be false, then Meier's reaction indeed should
be one of reprimand rather than one of acceptance of false
claims.
>This is the reason why his former wife (up to become divorced)
[now divorced in 1998]
>now has decided to break her silence after twenty years of being
>together with Billy Meier and of helping to lie to countless
>people.
The apparent meaning here is that his wife, Kalliope, lied in
support of the reality of Meier's contacts up to 20 years ago.
That's a claim that could only be verified if Meier's contacts
were shown to be hoaxed. This just hasn't been done; as Jeroen
has pointed out, Korff and his book certainly didn't do it. But
if she's accused of lying then, what good is her word now,
especially when she is now under the influence of an ardent
anti-Meier ufologist?
Some of us who have been keeping up on the Meier case have a
video tape of an interview made in Switzerland in 1979 by
Jun-Ichi Yaoi of Nippon TV in which Herbert Runkel, then of
Meier's group, translated Kalliope's testimony of her having seen
a "beamship" in the daytime (afternoon) along with some other
witnesses. This was immediately after Meier had returned from a
contact. A couple of Meier's children were interviewed too, as
they had been the first to spot the departing UFO and had seen it
when it was somewhat closer. One of them had sketched a picture
of it (in 1976) and this was shown in the video interview. It's
the picture on p. 44 of vol. 2 of Lee & Brit Elders' pictorial
Meier-case photo journal, for those who may possess a copy. One
has to show that these two kids, aged 6 & 9 at the time of their
sighting, lived a lie, too, for at least three years, before
beginning to have a basis for Buergin's claim.
Those who are interested might be able to obtain a copy of this
video from the Elders (<genesis@genesis-3.com>). They didn't
include it within any of their primary videos on the Meier case
because the sound track is of poor quality and one has to turn up
the sound all the way. Yet you can hear Runkel translate
Kalliope's testimony, which includes once having witnessed Meier
suddenly vanish in front of her eyes while being whisked away to
a contact (but no blue beam involved).
I suspect that it's this high-tech aspect of Meier's contacts
that have made many ufologists into Billy Meier foes. It's OK
for Carl Sagan to have admitted in his younger days that what
advanced ETs could do ought to seem like magic to us; it's quite
another thing to have this actually happen.
Many do not want our own level of science to actually be
infantile in comparison with that of aliens who somehow got from
"there to here," and so cry "hoax" without evidence of hoax. Many
are unwilling to try to persuade any mainstream scientists of
what it could mean for alien science to be millions of years
ahead of our own, for fear of ridicule from them.
One of the early members of Meier's support group seems to have
been in this category; he finally couldn't take it any longer and
left the group. He is Hans Schutzbach, who was one of the adult
witnesses to the June '76 daytime beamship sighting. It may be
informative to quote the translation of what he had to say about
this sighting, since he is not now a Meier-case supporter. The
quotation is taken from Wendelle Stevens' _Message from the
Pleiades, vol. 3 (1993, pp. 80-81), which is a re-translation of
the same report supplied in _UFO Contact from the Pleiades: A
Preliminary Investigation Report_ (1982, pp. 142-143; out of
print):
"On Monday, the 28th of June 1976, at 15:30 in the afternoon,
Billy had just telephoned me and asked me to carry his wife and
children in my car and drive out with him to a meeting with
Semjase. He would like us to be near then. Exactly at 16:00
hours we should drive away. And at this point in time the Meier
family and Mrs. Stetter got into my 2-CV auto as Billy prepared
his motor-bike. With the help of a drawing, he explained to me
whereto we should drive and wait for him. We drove there and sat
about half an hour in the shade of a lonely tree, well outside of
Hinwil. At 16:55 the children suddenly began to shout. I turned
around to see, at a distance of about 700 meters, an object lift
up over a part of the forest. At first I thought of an oversized
hot-air balloon. But the form was not correct for such. Here it
was a bit more disc-like, was silvery gray in color, and was fast
climbing up high. During this, it made a wide radius to the left
side, and turned, seen from the ground, that is, from the
northwest towards a southern direction. How silly, no telescope
is at hand, by means of which every detail could have been seen
on this object. At the first moment we were not aware of what
this object was. But the solving of the matter had to be, that
it was a beamship starting out! We strained our eyes to pursue
it for [10?] full minutes, as the object disappears more and more
in the air, until finally we can see only a little point high up
in the sky. Then the hitherto constantly shrinking point starts
to move rapidly fast to the right. At this point of time, Billy
had come up to near us unseen, and at the same moment, when he
appears to us and greets the children, the point is away, like it
was rubbed out....
"If we were interested, he would guide us to the landing place,
where traces of the two beamships could be seen. And how we
wanted to see this! So we drove down the small sightseeing hill
and into the forest about 500 meters, in which there extends a
long narrow view. It is somewhat marshy and covered by high
sedge. Carefully, so as not to trample nothing [sic], Billy led
us to a very interesting place... what appeared overwhelming to
us were the impressions of the landing supports. There were in
the half a meter high grass, six giant round marks, arranged in
two groups of triangles. The grass was pressed flat on the
ground in a counter-clockwise spiral-form. ..."
Original signed by Hans Schutzbach
Like someone else on the list recently pointed out, it's the
testimony of witnesses that forms the backbone to the UFO
phenomenon, though photos taken back in 1975-76 should carry more
weight than they do nowadays when anything can be faked.
> In an exclusive interview with Luc Buergin, for the first
>time ever, she admitted that the alledged contact experiences of
>Billy Meier
> *are entirely fictitious*.
>In the seventies she had seen photo negatives she prevented from
>being burnt where she easily could see (UFO)models.
The models Billy was presented with, and some of which he
photographed to see how they looked, are documented in Wendelle
Stevens' books. The handful of such appearing in his photo
albums, and numbered along with his beamship photos, are
described as being models in Meier's "Verzeichnis" (photo index),
and were never passed off as being anything other than models.
> In the interview
>she explains that the lid of a plastic vat was used as
>an "UFO". In the UFO-KURIER there is a photograph of such a lid
>on page 15.
>Mrs. Meier reported that for example in 1995 the Swiss newspaper
>"Neue Zuericher Zeitung" reported about Billy Meier and >presented a
photograph with
>Billy Meier in front of a plant which was put in such a lid.
Perhaps someone with access to both the UFO-KURIER and Meier's
beamship photos could do us the favor of pointing out which type
of UFO, of the 8 or so varieties of craft Meier ended up
photographing, this lid most resembles. Then we'd be interested
in hearing of the dissimilarities also. I've asked Michael
Hesemann if he would do this, since he has had access to many of
the Meier photos; he's no longer monitoring this list.
>Some of Meier's "mothership's" were the outdoor lamps at their
>house. Mrs. Meier reports of a woman, Mrs. G., who arrived one
>day at he Meier's home. Her hair style looked like the one of
>the female "Extraterrestrial" who was later presented on a
>photograph. That day, all the others were told to go away for
>some time. For the golden coloured suit of Mrs. G. Billy Meier
>used a foil which one can buy in every Swiss warehouse.
These claims are also unsupported, though not in dispute is that
a golden tinted foil can be purchased. Just like an earlier
claim that the picture of Asket (Meier's contactor of the 1960s
whose photo appears in amongst his 4 albums) was that of a model.
The alleged model was never identified, nor the catalogue in
which the picture exists specified, so that no comparison could
be made.
>During the last months Mrs. Meier was severely attacked by her
>husband in his articles and was , of course, named a liear etc..
Again, Meier has the option of remaining silent and allowing his
silence to be construed into acceptance of a guilt that isn't
there (isn't there from his viewpoint of being the experiencer),
or of speaking out against those who claim his contacts didn't
occur. Even mere abductees (sorry John V. or others, :-) )
don't like to take such attacks lying down.
Jim Deardorff
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