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From: koch@wad.berlin.fido.de (Joachim Koch) Date: 25 Mar 98 01:07:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 18:18:12 -0500 Subject: Israeli UFO Wave of 96 Dear Errol, Dear List, I was quite startled and a bit sad about the malice attitude in which Mr. Chamish responded to the information I forwarded here about the Israeli UFO wave of 96. Since the first reports of the events in Israel reached Germany I have successfully tried to get in contact with the authors of the various e-mails. So I followed the chain of events quite well. By the time, from these contacts one emerged as more durable than the others. My Source Of Information (MYSI) is male and authorized me to tell that [he] "... does not want any ufologist publicity now or in the future and does not intend to make any profit from ufology.I make enough money in my work in the software industry. unlike Mr Chamish, ufology is just an area of interest for me, not work. " When I am talking here of MYSI then I don't want to play the game of someone "who is in the know" but just protect the personal security of someone who has some military connections and scientific/technological background. I thought that we here in this list have a vivid interest in getting information from serious sources and that this list should help to find out what really is going on. It was never my intention to raise a campaign against Mr. Chamish. I only found it interesting to get further information about what happened in Israel and maybe someone else here finds it interesting, too. If not, please let me know. Well, here are further information that should help to get a clearer picture of the situation in "UFO-Israel". Yesterday, MYSI wrote to me concerning Mr. Chamish (bc>) and his reports: ---------------------slightly edited correspondence------- bc>as Gil Bar's November filming of an ellipsoid disk captured in 4 PM bc>sunlight being chased by anIsraeli Air Force F-15. I interrogated Gil Bar [...] i made him describe in details every aspect of what he saw, how he filmed, the conditions etc. [...] Hhe was totally unaware of several widely known aspects of Israel's air defence and of radar detection in general. he is an enthusiast teenager, a kid, who thinks that cutting things from newspapers is a scientific way of research. i have NOT seen the film but from what i deduce from his answers to my very specific questions, there's at least one possible and reasonable, even if not daily, explanation to what he described. it might still be a UFO too, but I'll bet on an earthly phenomena in this case. >the small green lizard-like creature was,just to show how easy it is >for us to fool ourselves, even when UFOs are not involved.. Two weeks ago, days after the brutal rape and murder of a young woman in Jerusalem, a young man from Jerusalem called the police saying that his cat brought home what looks like a human male penis. The police reacted immediately, things got to the news and everyone followed the police's search to find the dead body of a man from which the penis must have came from. only after a day or two it was verified that the piece of dead meat was a very young dead baby cat.... no penis, no dead body, no crime. just a dead cat. bc> WHO THE HELL IS THIS CREEP KOCH? by Barry Chamish How nice of him, how the saying goes.. " the mouse that roared like a lion" bc>articles about the matter in Israelian ISRAELI NOT ISRAELIAN. bc>HERE'S A GUY RIGHT ON TOP OF ISRAEL. considering Chamish's repeated errors in describing geographic places and distances in Israel's he better be more humble. bc>two young newcomers, Gil Bar Gil Bar is only a teenager, a kid, who cuts articles about UFOs from newspapers and magazines, he was astonished when I told him about the possibilities of gathering such info from Internet, and didn't know some basic well known facts about the Israeli air defence system (re:UFOs ) and radar detection in general. His only "contribution" to ufology ever was filming what he thought to be a UFO and talking with Chamish about it. See the rest of what i wrote about this above. if Chamish considers Gil Bar a newcomer ufologist it's not only a bad humor, it also show how unreliable Chamish's descriptions are. bc>and Eddie Shpitz, same story. just a guy who filmed something. Unlike Mr. Rotem and others, he's NOT a ufologist. period. bc> - 1997 saw three UFOs filmed in Rishon Letzion, 20 miles south wrong distance bc>Tel Aviv and a center of UFO activity since 1993 unbelievable exaggeration of things, pompous descriptions, like a bag of hot air. bc>THE INCIDENT IS RECEIVING WIDE COVERAGE BY THE UFOLOGISTS OF bc>ISRAEL. Ignoring Chamish's insulting attitude, Israel is a country in which every small aerial event, normal or UFO, gets full media coverage. any ufo related event, real or not, got coverage, including the Kadima events, the "big foot robot" event, mutilations, landings, police chases after ufos, the Achihud green thing. all those and many other events got full local coverage and I heard of all of them. I think it's safe to say if an event Mr Chamish talks about ever happened and did not get media coverage, it was not worth taking about, whether real of hoax. That's all. and like most Israelis I hear/see/read news several times a day. bc> ACTUALLY BELIEVES THE ISRAELI MEDIA REPORTS UFO INCIDENTS. It really does. all the other events got full coverage (TV, newspapers) bc>HAVE TO DIG FOR THEM. The Achihud green thing got prime time for 2-3 days. No need to "dig" to find it. >>1. Too many Tel-Aviv residents, and tourists on the beach >>riviera, would see this, enough of them would have a camcorder >>handy and would call TV within minutes hoping to get good money >>for the film. and Chamish's response.... bc>THAT'S IT. I'M NOT ANSWERING ANYMORE. THE REST OF THIS GOES ON THE bc>SAME WAY. Considering Mr Chamish's responses so far, which contradicts the image he tries to present of a 'serious' journalist, there's no wonder that when faced with 3 hard facts (the one above and the two which follow, he fully stops answering at the first of them. People here send tapes to the TV program similar to "America's Funniest Home Videos" with much less than UFOs, for prizes. There's no way Mr Chamish can argue with the above and the other two facts I gave (quoted below) regarding the Tel-Aviv air traffic corridor. No wonder he wouldn't deal with it. He just can't. bc>HE NEVER HEARD OF ANY INCIDENTS. I've heard of all the other incidents in full detail. bc>BYE All. BARRY Like a bank robber saying "leave the rest, that's enough" to the cashier which puts money in his bag when he hears the police sirens.. >>2. The skies over Tel-Aviv are a busy air corridor. It's the main >>air corridor for international air traffic to/from Israel, and >>within visual range from 3 very active airfields in the north >>east,south, two of them military and the third is Israel's main >>civil airport. Any disturbance in this air corridor would be seen >>almost instantly by both radar and visual by several air traffic >>controllers and pilots and this would trigger an immediate >>response... >>3. Any unidentified, or even uncontrolled!! air traffic over the >>Tel-Aviv area would bring an immediate response - F-15s, >>constantly at very high readiness, are located in a fourth large >>airfield within less than a minute flight from Tel-Aviv. They >>would be over Tel-Aviv very fast, and their noise (which so many >>military veteran Israelis can easily distinguish from the noise of >>a civil airliner) would bring the rest of the population to look >>up. again, enough of them would have camcorders handy. >>So the above story never happened or you'd have seen it in CNN and >>every other TV network at the same day. As I said, there's no way Mr Chamish can argue with those hard facts. If a UFO would ever be seen over Tel-Aviv in perfect daylight conditions chased by an F-15, the CNN office in Israel's would get the tape and show it the same day. period. bc>On October 10, a UFO was seen over the Kadima suburb of Tel bc>Yitzhak. Chamish has a strange way of describing small suburbs as cities and smaller separate villages as suburbs... bc>I will be bringing the videos of the low flying invasion of bc>TelAviv, the F-15 chasing a most distinct disk over Rishon Letzion >That would be interesting. the area between the nearby cities of >Tel-Aviv and Rishon are both densely populated, busy with air >traffic , and very sensitive in military terms. No visible >aircraft, human or UFO can fly there without being seen, >especially at day time, and without triggering a quick response >by the Israeli air force, even for the simple reason of civil air >traffic safety in this dense air corridor. >Again, consider any info from Mr. Chamish with caution! Great caution i would say now. he's not better than any of the many hot-air know-alls you can read in Internet, in newsgroups etc. i hope not too many in the UFOlogy community will take any word he said for granted just because he's from Israel's and they're not. -------------------------------------end of correspondence----------- If anything new happens, I'll keep you updated. Auf Wiedersehen! Joachim Koch ---
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