UFO UpDates Mailing List
From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 09:23:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 09:23:23 -0400
Subject: FYI - Max Burns
For readers who are a little perplexed as to
the reasons for the apparently sudden BUFORA embroglio,
there follows a message which _may_ help to clarify.
ebk
<<<>>>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:21:25 -0400
From: Miles Johnston <TMilesJ@compuserve.com>
Subject: Max Burns
Sheffield Incident Response To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>
Please ignore the file sent on this matter a day ago.
Many who received the file, found that it immediately deleted
itself, once opened.
Hopefully this posting will not vanish before your eyes, as the
last one did.
Please note that this posting took well over 36hours to be
received. The snail mail version arrived first.:- and was posted
in error.
IS the Email Being Bugged????
In view of the Skywatch total delete last week end, after me
sending material to the Skywatch list on this matter, I can only
surmise, that it may be due to this Sheffield incident involving
such sensitive issues, that even the "Psi-Corp" version of the
National Guard is out on this one. (I stand to be totally
corrected, as this is pure speculation).
Max has been subjected to severe personal attack on his report,
which is simply his report on an incident, involving RAF jets,
civilian aircraft, military helicopters, massive sonic booms of
unknown origin, the possible loss (NOT CRASH) of an RAF Tornado
attack interceptor aircraft, and the reported sighting of a
MASSIVE, quote "HUGE" triangular UFO hovering feet from houses in
Dronfield, near Sheffield.
David Clarke who has also compiled a full report on this incident
disputes Max Burn's claims as made in his report.
Thanks to David questions raised in the House Of Commons (March
1998) have now succesfully revealed that RAF did have aircraft in
the area, and that they were breaking regulations by allowing
aircraft to go supersonic over a built up area.
In essence the Official line is :- Sorry we were a bit naughtie,
and some of our pilots did a few boo boos.
The Unofficial, and vitriolicly opposed line is that at least one
massive triangular UFO was engaged with RAF jets at this time.
Whether this meant ETs were involved is a matter for conjecture.
Further attempts to discredit Max Burns, siting his arrest for a
drugs offence have been inaccuractly reported. These reports may
be subject to legal proceedings. Mr Burns was today again given
bail and will be fighting his case, at Sheffield Crown Court in
due course.
In essence he has stated that the drugs case is a dirty tricks
department operation in order to get him out of the way, so his
findings on the Incident will not be reported. Mr Burns has
already received a commendation after saving a policeman's life,
at great personal risk to himself, in a separate incident in the
Sheffield area.
It is hoped that Both Max Burns and David Clarke will be able to
argue their respective points of view, at a BUFORA meeting on May
2nd, in London.
Here follows Max Burns' formal reply to the recent events,
including direct responses sent to Burns, via my email address.
I might add, that the tone, and personal insults addressed to me,
over my "crime" of simply talking to Max, speak, in my opinion
for themselves, and reveal more about the sender, that they
should have allowed themselves to.
Miles J
To: All researchers world-wide UFO groups journalists
& anybody with an interest
Subject: The Sheffield Incident March 24th 1997.
(Debunkers of the world unite)
The accused....Bufora , Andy Roberts , Tim
Matthews, David Clark.
From: Max Burns
First of all what you are about to read is the transcript of the
acidic e-mail that was sent to Miles Johnston from Mr Andy
Roberts, purely for the purpose of trying to discredit me and to
attack me personally as part of the onslaught from the above
mentioned, to try and discredit my research into the Sheffield
incident. What all this has to do with them must mean only one
thing! I'll let you all decide what that is. Followed by my
response.
This will be my one & only response to these juveniles.
To: Miles Johnstone, TMilesJ
From: Andy Roberts, Briganta
Date: 4/3/98, 2.53pm
Re: Sheffield UFO Crash
Hi Miles,
I gather from Max Burns you are confused about the true nature of
the Sheffield Moors UFO event. Dave Clarke (BUFORA AI) has done
the*real* research on this case and indeed was the first person
to write about it.(Sheffield Star, March 1997).
I have had several conversatios with Max about this and it is
clear tht his predeliction for the ETH is governing has critical
faculties. All Max has in the way of 'evidence' is a few reports
of what may or may not be unexplained aircraft. Oh, and a copy of
the police log which Max did not actually get himself but has
recieved from another researcher in Sheffield but is now
pretending is his own research.
Saying that something is ET in nature without a scrap of evidence
is sadly indicative of the way ufology in this country is going.
Additionally, claiming that a member of the armed forces lost his
life - whether in an accident or via the ludicrous claims of a
UFO incident - is a serious matter and could cause needless worry
and distress in certain quarters. This is not good or responsible
UFO research and quite frankly Miles I am astonished that you
should wish to be connected to it.
Dave Clarke has produced a *full* report on #this case and I will
be presenting his findings to the public shortly via at least one
major newstand magazine. *This* is proper UFO research and not
the half baked tripe Max is hawking around. I am sure that if you
contact Dave he will fill you in and I am also attaching below
details of Dave's sterling work in approaching the problem
through official channels and which have already produced
results.
I gather that some 'presentation' regarding this case is to be
shown at the BUFORA AGM tommorrow, based on Max's interpretation.
It is a great shame that BUFORA members will be subjected to this
unsubstantiated nonsense and it will in fact lower BUFORA's
esteem further within the serious UFO Investigative community.
You are obviously compliant in this and must shoulder the blame
when people question BUFORA members' ability to interpret cases
clearly.
Furthermore Max tells me that his current drugs charge is a 'set
up' by British Intelligence and that he is going to call Tim Good
as a witness and the whole case will collapes.
Do you believe that nonsense also Miles?.
His guilt or lack of it is for the courts to decide as I am sure
you are aware.
But, our sources in 'Intel' inform us there are also two
warrants without bail outstanding for Max, one for failing to
answer bail in court and the other for owing over two thousand
pounds to Rotherham Council.
I would have copies this to Max but I don't have his current
e-mail address. Perhaps you would be good enough to forward this
to him for me.
Happy Trails
Andy
_________________________________________________________________
__________ ____ Max Burns..........responce
Let me inform you of some disturbing events that have come to
pass over the last few weeks, last Saturday April 4th the BUFORA
AGM was held in London and as arranged prior to the event.
A video presentation was to be shown from Miles Johnston as well
as that the full 22000 word forty page report of my extensive
twelve month investigation into the Incident over the Pennines.
However by the Friday before the BUFORA AGM it became evident
that during my many conversations with Mr Steve Gamble after he
had received the first twenty pages of the report that the
opinion was growing from unknown quarters in the organisation
that perhaps that only part of the report would be able to be
read out under the guise of not enough time to read it all to the
AGM. I made the comment to Mr Steve Gamble current President of
the group that I felt that this was censorship of the report and
without reading the full document that the members would not be
aware of what I believe, from the evidence I have collated, from
various areas and therefore would not be able to make an accurate
judgement on the varasity of my conclusions.
The AGM went on till 4.00pm and the video presentation would have
run just under 60 minutes which still left 30 minutes to cover
any other business, but it was decided to censor the video
presentation as well as the report that was scheduled to be read
to the AGM.
Mr David Clark ( the Sheffield Star ) BUFORA A.I. has also
supposedly been caring out extensive research into this incident
and I have over the last twelve months been sharing my research
with David who has continued to debunk witnesses whom I have
spoken with without even speaking with them. This seems strange,
as Sigmund Freud said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" then
perhaps using this analogy sometimes a huge 200/300 ft across
flying triangle with the control of gravity is exactly what the
eye witnesses say it is...
This is another example of Mr Clarks excellent unbiased reporting
came, about six weeks ago when a couple from the Sheffield area
reported that they had witnessed an enormous flying triangle over
the area. They said "the triangle was zig zagging all over the
sky." In the Sheffield Star Mr Clark reported that what they had
in all likelyhood seen was the 20.00 arrival from Amsterdam into
Sheffield airport. I think that the witnesses who have nothing to
gain from reporting what they had seen to the media as concerned
citizens know the difference between an enormous triangle shaped
object zig zagging all over the sky and the 22.00 arrival from
Amsterdam. Why does it have to be something else? Why can't what
the witnesses say they saw be exactly what they say they saw,a
huge triangle craft? This I feel is one of the many debunking
exercises that Mr Clark is involved in under the guise of
unbiased reportive journalism. As well as that I called to see
David about six weeks ago to share with him copies of the police
log that I had obtained from a fellow researcher and at no point
have I ever tried to take research supplied to me by another
researcher and not give them credit for the assistance in my
investigation by any such help as is the accusation made by Mr
Andy Roberts the editor and compiler of the Armchair ufoligist,
as if anyone would care to speak with Mr Clark, I'm sure that
maybe for once he will put the record straight and acknowledge
the fact that when he asked me who I had received the police log
of the incident from I did not want to reveal my source but when
David suggested the name of a certain researcher I immediately
confirmed to him that he was correct.as well as that I have hand
written confirmation from David Clark himself which reads.
"Max....Here's the edited police log I was given by the CID. It
doesn't tell you anymore than the log which Martin gave you. Hope
the implant isn't playing up and send my regards to Miles
Johnston - in his tunnel!."
Mr Clarke has also claimedf that he was the first investigator on
the scene arriving on the scene the morning of the 25th March,
not that it was a race to get there first, or is Mr Clarke
asserting that as he was there first his version or should i say
story is correct. but once again just to put the record straight
as i was stopped by P.C Mick Eccleshare in Castleton at 23.45 on
the night of the 24th for a routine vechicle check, he then sent
myself & Emma over the the Strines and Dale dyke reservoirs,
where there he told me that there had been reports of a crashed
plane this information is a matter of police record and having
that i have spoken with P.C Eccleshare on numerous occassions he
will confirm that i was on the scene at approx midnight on the
24th March where i photographed the R.A.F Sea king helicopters
searching the area with infra red. The photograhic evidence i
still have in my possession.
another case of incorrect reporting and as Mr Clarke Has he
stated that he has spoken with all key witneses, and they have
confirmed that it was a light aircraft,he however has not spoken
with any of the witneses to the flying triangle,and may i also
say that no one is disputing that there was light aircraft in the
area infact a former RAF officer stated that Militiary jets flew
low and fast over Dronfield then a twin engined plane circled the
area twice very low obviously searching for something i believe
that the light aircraft had the triangle under surveilance
becausse of the slow flying speed of these triangles it is easier
to pin point them for the jets when these triangles at such a low
altitude makes it very hard to track them on radar. Hence why the
light aircraft was spotted all over the pennines that night it
was obviously tailing the triangle for the militiary, Mr Clark
has also stated that my entire version of events is a
fabrication, Well let me put it this way if my claims are a gross
fabrication as Clark, Mathew's,& Robert's claim.
Why has Clark claimed that my
" Gross fabrication which could lead to uneccessary anguish among
service families." Surely Mr Clark you have just exposed youself
and your assoiates to what you really are a group of authorised
debunkers, if no pilots have been killed during this incident and
no service pilots wifes or husbands have been to there husband or
wifes funerals, how would my report cause uneccessary anguish
among service families, "those are your words" unless it would
bring the true nature of how family members had lost there
spouses, instead of the standard " your husband or wife lost
there life on a mission and died with honour in the defece of the
realm type bog standard militiary statement." Thanks for
confirming that my research is correct and exposing you and your
assocites for what you really are a group of debunkers for and on
behalf of the secret keepers.
I hope that Mr Clark will also acknowledge the fact that I
supplied him with the opportunity to photo copy what ever
documentation from my rough draft of the incident including my
initial conclusions and hand written witness statements which he
did. But Mr Clark had told me that he had a police log of his own
and in return he would supply me with copies of the log which he
claimed to have in his possession, the content of which he
claimed had multiple triangle sightings about events over the
Pennines on the 24th March.
MR Clark also states that the search lasted 18 hours, but in
actual fact the search lasted 15 hours at maximum, another case
off miss-reporting
For the benefit of Mr Roberts, in the acknowledgements in my
report and during the report I have made repeated thanks to all
concerned who have supplied me with data in particular to the
researcher who supplied me with the police log so all I can say
to the unbiased Mr Robert's is please get your facts 100%
correct when your are going to personally attack me for no
reason.Or have you got some hidden agenda? And what has any of
this got to do with you anyway?
I feel that as an individual living in a democratic society
exercising my right to present my evidence and place it in the
public domain and let the free minded individuals of this planet
draw their own conclusions. Considering that the friendly Mr
Roberts has not even seen or read my research he is in way over
his understanding or comprehension of such matters of great
importance and I suggest that you stick to writing about lights
in the sky...
Now referring to the police log that David Clark alleged to me
that he had in his possession and in return for the exchange of
data he would forward to me in the post.
What I believe I recieved through the post after checking with a
police contact who confirmed to me that any police documentation
including police logs would have on it the police force district
and relevant incident numberss so as that police from other
districts or forces can pull an incident from its incident number
and therefore keeping all data relevant to a paticular incident
in the same file, as Mr Clark stated that he had recieved his log
off a member of the CID.
I also inquired about CID. police logs and it was confirmed to me
that all departments of all police forces operate off the same
paperwork for unifercation off operating systems, so as to make
the passing of data between forces comprehencable to all. So I
must conclude that what I recieved from Clark was nothing more
than the official log that I supplied to David which had been
scanned in, then a quick cut and paste of various portions of the
text into a new document which was done poorly due to the second
line of any cut and paste had not stayed in line with the edge of
the beginning of the document due to the tabs not been set on the
new document the text was all over the page, then with a couple
of footnotes written into the border with some dates a quick
photocopy and the attempted piece of deception was complete..
"its a pity that some people judge me on there own intelligence"
when I spoke with David with regard to the lack of evidence in
his poor attempt at deception, he denied ever making claims about
triangles in his version of his supposed police log which he had
in his possession, also on my visit to David's office the
afternoon of tea and debate of obviously two individuals with
different opinions with regard to the UFO phenomena, which may I
say is everyones right, took a more insidious nature when one of
David's colleagues arrived back from an assignment, the two of
them turned on me with personal attacks ranging from my knowledge
of the subject to the amount of time I have in the research field
what bearing any of that had with regard to the incident over the
Pennines except for the beginning of the onslaught of personal
attacks against me in the hope of discrediting me so as then to
debunk my research.
Mr Tim Matthew's has continued to attack me with some varasity
during the last twelve months including the sending of very
acidic e-mails to the editor of one of the magazines that I have
been writing for which were kindly re- e.mailed to me.
One of the strange things about this was his pointing out that I
had spelt the name of a certain operative incorrectly, so my
whole article must be tarnished...petty or what perhaps the
spelling mistake was down to the production editor we will never
know!
One of the worlds great unanswered mysteries. He then informed
the editor that there was no point in reporting the second Brazil
crash as it was all made up. Now considering that the only person
who knew that my next article was the Brazil incident other than
the editor was myself, I consider it to be a brilliant piece of
guess work on the behalf of the unbiased former B.N.P stalwart Mr
Matthews. Keep up the good work Tim. "You're a thoroughly jolly
nice chap"
Going back to Mr David Clark I am quite amused by the fact even
with my continuing endeavours to share information with Clark
purely on the basis that if we all conceal what evidence then we
are effectively doing the job of the intelligence community and
we have become no better than the beast.
Clark has turned up the pressure on me by revealing to all and
sundry with regard to my present legal situation appertaining to
my charge as an ecstasy dealer as reported by Matthews Roberts &
Clark who I will now refer to as Stock Aitken & Waterman, one of
which was also known as the Hitman I don't know which one is
'her'...in the vain attempt to discredit me and therefore
discredit my research. (for anyone who does not know Pete
Waterman used to present a TV show called the Hitman & her with
Michala Strachan.)
These drug charges which they have alleged information is also
being reported incorrectly the dealing of ecstasy is a class A
charge but I have only been charged with a class B charge.
Another case of mis-reporting still serious charges though and
with also the big scoop of the year that I apparently owe over
=A32000 to Rotherham Council.
This information is also incorrect not that it has anything to
with Matthews Roberts & Clark, the agreement with my former
landlord was that my rent was inclusive of council tax and
although the council may be trying to recoup this money from
myself I have not been formerly served with any such
documentation. May I also state that if unless Matthews Roberts
& Clark have recently changed the law Kangaroo courts are
illegal.
I have pleaded not guilty to the lesser charge, and therefore I
am innocent until 12 members of the public decide otherwise. With
regard to my current bail situation I will be in court on
Wednesday to address this and the decision of which will be up to
the sitting magistrate.
I would remind my unbiased friends that misreporting of charges
against me is quite possibly as well as malicious could be deemed
liable.
Mr Clark has also telephoned Steve Gamble at BUFORA and quite
firmly has instructed him that no part of my research should be
heard by the council or members, as a journalist for the local
paper The Sheffield Star, in his capacity as area investigator
for BUFORA I don't quite understand with what or whose authority
he is issuing these orders on the current president of BUFORA.
Mr Clark is soon he hopes to be appointed to the position of
press officer for the BUFORA group.
during my debate in his office he stated that he has been a
researcher in the study of UFOs for fifteen years and that none
of the millions of UFO reports world wide are due to the fact we
are being visited by extra terrestrials, - glad you put us all
straight on that one Dave - fifteen years studying UFOs and
believes none of the sightings could possibly be due to the
visitation of ET is that the same as an atheist reading the bible
!.
I feel it would be of no benefit to the members of BUFORA to have
a press officer with such a biased nature,and one sided approach
to the field of UFO research, I my self acknowledge that not all
sightings of UFO are alien ships, some are hoaxes some are
miss-identifications.But I also feel that some of the sightings
are extra terresstrial in origin.
If BUFORA want to do the right thing they should have a press
officer who is not involved in the research field and has no
hidden agenda,when will BUFORA release the 600 case files they
have absorbed so research can be continued into these cases,they
are a research organisation but there appears to be very little
research going on just the holding of case files.!
I propose that David should have the opportunity to present his
research and his conclusions as an individual.there is always
room for everyones opions its a free country I think?
And at the same time I should also be allowed to present my
findings and my conclusions inviting the national media to be
present at the presentations and let them report what they
believe to be the facts about what happened one cold cloudless
night.
In itself assuring that BUFORA is still the British Unidentified
Flying Objects Research Association and not the British
Absorption of Information and Burial of Evidence Debunkers
Society for and on Behalf of the Government which sadly the
rumours and behaviour of certain members of the group would seem
to point to being true.
With regard to my pending court case i feel it would not be
prudent to discuss the case with regard to the laws of subjudisy
and that i do not wish to reveal what evidence the authorities do
not have or what evidence i have with regard to my defence
obviously you know the old saying "forwarned is forarmed" but i
will say you can lock me up, but you will never take my freedom.
May I also let everyone know that I am 35yrs of age and have no
previous convictions and in 1992 I received a commendation from
the chief constable of Derbyshire Police for saving a Policeman's
life at great risk to myself while he was being attacked by three
thugs at great personal risk for my own safety.
There is only one thing worse than being talked about. " Not
being talked about".
So if I am so far from the mark with regard to the incident over
the Pennines on the 24th March 1997 why am I being attacked from
the usual debunkers with such varasity so badly even to the point
of them trading personal insults in a vain attempt to discredit
me and therefore discredit the incident it is a sad state of
affairs when these so called professional people are allowed to
behave like this.
But all I can say is my research is right on the money, on top if
it wasn't then I would not be attracting this much aggression
from those who seek to conceal the truth.
Yours Faithfully
Maxwell Brierley Burns
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