Aliens On Earth.com Resources for those who are stranded here Our Bookstore is OPEN Over 5000 new & used titles, competitively priced! Topics: UFOs - Paranormal - Area 51 - Ghosts - Forteana - Conspiracy - History - Biography - Psychology - Religion - Crime - Health - Geography - Maps - Science - Money - Language - Recreation - Technology - Fiction - Other - New Search... for keyword(s)   in Page Titles in Book Title/Author in Contents of Pages ---other searches--- Metacrawler Yahoo FAST Search Google Altavista Dogpile Inference Find Northern Light IWon.com MSN Search Las Vegas Sun Location: Mothership -> UFO -> Updates -> 1998 -> Nov -> Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.'

UFO UpDates Mailing List

From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:57:18 PST
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:01:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.'


>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.'
>Date: Fri, 13 Nov 98 17:57:40 PST

>>From: Leanne Martin <leanne_martin@hotmail.com>
>>To: updates@globalserve.net
>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.'
>>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:57:19 PST

>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.'
>>>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 12:36:57 PST

>>>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
>>>>To: <updates@globalserve.net>
>>>>Subject: Oars, Sails, And Whatever Is 'Nazi Tech.'
>>>>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:19:05 -0800

>>>>Willy Ley astonomer, rocketeer, Jew. Willy is one of the great

>><snip>

>>>I had not heard before that Ley was Jewish, which would not
>>>matter at all if, of course, such things had not mattered
>>>profoundly to Nazi murderers.  Are you sure of this? From what I
>>>understand, Ley fled Germany not because he feared Hitler's
>>>ethnic cleansing  but because he thought the Nazis might come
>>>down on him for publishing rocketry articles outside Germany. If
>>>you know better, I'd be happy to be corrected.

>>>Jerry Clark

>>Jerry (& List),

>>Could we please agree to not (as in _never_ again) use that
>>Orwellian phrase of 'ethnic cleansing' in place of of the truely
>>_dirty_ and barbaric behaviour that it was then in Europe and,
>>continues to be today in other countries - genocide.

>>Is that too much to ask for, in this List at least, when we are
>>trying to find truths in the Orwellian speak of and behaviour of
>>so many governments and agencies around the world - also out of
>>respect for those who been on the receiving end of such
>>treatment?

>Leanne,

>I happen to be a major admirer of Orwell.  In fact, a few weeks
>ago I read Michael Shelten's biography of him (better than
>Bernard Crick's, by the way, if anybody's interested).  I am
>keenly attuned to Orwellian language.  Everybody on this list,
>incidentally, ought to read Orwell's famous essay "Politics and
>the English Language" on this very subject.

>"Ethnic cleansing" is indeed an Orwellian term, and I was using
>it exactly in that bitterly ironic sense, to denote the
>continuity between barbarism in Germany in the early 1940s and
>barbarism in the former Yugoslavia (and elsewhere, such as
>Rwanda) in the 1990s.  The only reason Hitler and his henchmen
>didn't use the term "ethnic cleansing" to denote genocide was
>that they didn't think of it.  Mass murder, alas, is not a
>phenomenon consigned to distant history.

>Jerry Clark


Jerry,

I appreciate that you may have had a particular intent in its
(the term "ethnic cleansing") use _however_ its ongoing use, for
whatever reason, helps to establish its acceptance in the long
run as a valid expression _no_matter_how_repugnant_or_misguided_.

Leanne.