UFO UpDates Mailing List
From: Giuliano (Jimmy) Marinkovicc <9a4ag@9a0tcp.ampr.org>
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 98 20:13:17 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:45:31 -0400
Subject: BBC: A Question Of Science
[Lightly edited --ebk]
SHORT REVIEW OF BBC SHOW. The length of the show was 45 minutes
so I guess that's too long for me to make a transcript (in the
sense of my time) so I present this short review of the
programme as I have promised.
================================================================
BBC WORLD SERVICE
BBC World Service
Bush House
The Strand
London UK
BROADCAST PROGRAMME: A QUESTION OF SCIENCE
RECORDED FROM SHORT WAVE FREQUENCY: 12,095 MHZ
TIME OF BROADCAST:
04th OF OCTOBER 1998. - SUNDAY (premiere)
14:01 - 14:45 GMT
05th OF OCTOBER 1998. - MONDAY (re-run)
08:15 - 08:59 GMT
A QUESTION OF SCIENCE is presented by John Wilson and produced by
Graham Eastern and Martin Redford
================================================================
RELATIONS BETWEEN PARA-SCIENCE AND MAINSTREAM SCIENCE
================================================================
1. PART OF THE SHOW:
- INTRODUCTION
- Introduction of subject (the current position of
Extra-terrestrial life, UFOs, telepathy, ESP, etc. in science)..
Host John Wilson asks "does science in our time have the
right tools to investigate those supernatural things?"
- THE X-FILES THEME music theme.
- Graham Eastern, BBC reporter also gives short introduction
to show. He says that The X-files and the influence of
paranormal subjects and aliens, are invading our homes. Media
programs, pop culture and other TV series are presenting
paranormal subjects today. But Graham asks do they stand on
solid ground. "Is the border between mainstream science and
para-science still sharp?"
- Graham is speaks about SETI and then BBC plays a clip from
astronomer Martin Griffiths of the Univerity of Wales. Martin
makes his comments. He says that we must continue to listen to
space because if we don't search, we will never know whether
extra-terrestrial intelligence really exists.
- Graham speaks about debate connected with intelligent space
craft. BBC plays a clip in which Philip Mantle from BUFORA
(British UFO Research Association) comments about UFOs. Philip
says that most UFO research is done by civilians who have the
skills of different disciplines - the primary function is to
record and investigate UFO sightings. A small number of UFO
sightings can't be explained by current science. Other sightings,
of course can have conventional explanations.
- Graham then says that many teams around the Earth are
investigating strange phenomena (telepathy, ESP, moving objects
with the mind, crop circles etc). BBC plays clip from the
interview with Robert Morris who is professor of para-psychology
at Edinbourgh University in Scotland. After 12 years of
research, Robert is convinced that something unusal is going on.
It is not a statistical anomaly and it is strange. But for someone
else it is hokus-pokus, and Robert has a message for skeptics:
"first read our research reports and then we would love to hear
your logic."
================================================================
2nd. Part Of The Show
- Conversation With The Guest Inside The Studio In London
What Is The Science In Para-Science?
- Programme transfers to guests inside London studio.
The guests are:
Dr. Richard Wiseman,
prof. John Durant of Imperial College London,
Jane Watkins - editor of the magazine Fortean Times,
linked from USA is prof. Robert Park from the University of
Maryland
and Dr. Susan Blackmoore who is linked from University of
Western England.
- Host John Wilson wants to hear the comments from the guests
about John Morris' claims that unusal things exist. John is
also asking can those things be put in scientific categories.
- Susan says that there is no connections between telepathy and
extra-terrestrial life because extra-terrestrial life is
science.
- Jane says that that un-expected science is paranormal also.
- John Durant says that potential conventional science is
extra-terrestrial life, because we think that it is there, and
if we will find in the future that ET life doesn't exist then
that would be strange.
- Robert says that ET life is good for scientific research. That
is the real science and it is the most exciting frontier around.
But the other stuff, such as ESP, can't work. Robert says that
research has been done inside those areas for the last 150 years
and there hasn't been progress.
- Richard says also that there are groups which are doing bad
science but there are also small groups in those areas which are
trying to do a good science. So his conclusion is that a
scientific approach is possible in all those areas.
- John Durant says that bad science has also been done in the
conventional areas of science and that bad science has been
published in conventional journals. John also says that ESP and
UFOs are the things where you are dealing with the borders of
science and if any of those areas become truth the implications
would be so big because they are pushing the current perspective
of what we know. The effects will be so spectacular because
claims doesn't fit with today's picture of science. So they
would be revolutionary.
- Susan says that it is good that someone is doing those
investigations but it is very simple to investigate those
things. For example, she says, if you want to investigate
telepathy, simply put 2 people in 2 different rooms. I have
tried that 100 times, she says, but there are no results. Susan
is wonders why very few people have results there like Robert
Morris (mentioned earlier).
- Jane says that her magazine Fortean Times is recording strange
events and the magazine presents views from the both sides.
Debate must be active in those areas.
- Richard says that those claims are revolutionary ideas but
because of that we must be careful. But, Richard also says that
if those stories are not true, its interesting why
so many people believe in that.
- Jane says that scientists sometimes comment that people who
are doing super-natural research are mad, but one the other hand
they are glad that anyone is doing research because if its
confirmed that would be great.
- John Durant says that he is skeptical about those areas but he
is glad that there are some good scientists who are doing
research. He also says that we must know that those kind of
investigations are expenisive and it is very hard to get good
results. So its not suprising that people don't want to be
involved in it.
- Susan says that altough ESP events are not real experiances
its good that we are learning about those experiences from the
psychology side. She said it is interesting to monitor people's
claim that they are abducted by aliens when in fact they aren't.
- Robert says that he agrees that these are fascinatings areas
but they are not going to be solved if we are going to look at
the strange lights in the sky (refers to psychological
characteristics of those events).
================================================================
3rd. PART OF THE SHOW
- SO CALLED EVIDENCE
- John Wilson asks why some scientists are convinced that there
is some hard evidence and good ground in those areas. He then
says that for example Peter Sturrock from Stanford University
has said in June that UFOs should be investigated. So John
asks why some scientists are ready to research UFOs and
flying saucers if the process is not going to be too expensive.
- BBC reporter Graham presents a short review of the Peter
Sturrock statement from end of June, 1998. Peter stated that
science can find new things and it can learn from UFO reports.
The investigation of the panel was supported by Mr. Rockfeller.
World Wide media broadcasted the news in June when astronomer
Peter Sturrock said that UFOs are serious thing.
- BBC plays a clip recorded in June where Peter says that we
must investigate the psychological part of UFO claims together
with phycical evidence.
- After that BBC plays recorded interview with Dr. J. Malosh
from The Lunar and Planetary Laboratory in Arizona. He is a
meteor expert. He says that he was invited, along with others,
to the meeting where the panel presented the best evidence
of UFOs. But Malosh says that the panel wasn't independent
because they have connections with UFO community. He said that
it was clear that they are not clean.
- Graham speaks about Peter Sturrock again. He says that
Sturrock is President of The Society For Scientific Exploration.
Other members of panel are convinced in theories of remote
viewing, cold fushion, reincarnation and warp drive - they are
'Star Trek' scientists.
- But then BBC again plays recorded statement from Peter
Sturrock where he says that UFO phenomenon was ignored and
ridiculed in the past. He says that in the past, a few hundred
years ago, people were convinced that meteors - "rocks from the
sky" and ball of lighting were a joke. But today we know that
they are real. So we could maybe learn something from UFOs in
the future altough we don't know what that is for now.
- BBC plays continuation of the recorded interview with Dr.
Malosh. He says that the so called "evidence" from scientific
panel is not so convincing and it is un-scientific. There is no
hard evidence or fragments from UFOs which could change our
mind. Malosh states that he will not devote his time any more to
UFO subject.
================================================================
4th. PART OF THE SHOW
- TOOLS OF SCIENCE
- John Wilson asks Robert Park and other guests for their views
about those events connected with the Scientific Panel and UFOs
and is it possible to investigate that phenomenon?
- Robert says that people see strange things sometimes. He also
says that if people want to see bears, they will see bears
although it will be a bush. He also says that inside ufology
there isn't any good piece of information available. He states
that he doesn't know how UFOs could be investigated in the
first place. "Are we going to put TV screens to monitor the sky?
I can't imagine how we could do that!"
- John Durant says that science has limitations. For example ET
life still isn't detected because for now the ultimate speed is
Light Speed and the distances in space are too big.
- John Wilson asks Susan how she looks at the so called evidence
inside para-science and is that "soft evidence".
- Susan says that she was a lucky enough to meet a man
who has claimed that he was abducted by aliens. He had
given her a piece of metal and said, "here it is, a piece
of evidence!" He claimed that it was a alien implant and he
then said to Susan, "you are probably not going to test it in
the first place." And Susan has answered "why not, if it is true
that could be the revolution inside science." After that Susan
says that she has tested that piece with other scientists and
that it was a ordenery dental filling.
(***Laughter in the studio from the hosts and from the other guests***)
- Susan continues and says that the point is that she has tested
that thing and that others helped because we wanted to see the
answer.
- John Wilson asks how could we be convinced then that something
is real.
- Richard answers that it is a relative view. It depends on the
views of the scientists. For UFOs it is hard to have the
procedure and tools for investigation because psychological
effects are also involved.
- John Wilson asks do personal beliefs effect the research
itself.
- John Durant answers that they do. Science is the process of
individuals who are offering their ideas and arguments.
- John Wilson concludes that UFO researchers are not so
eccentric then.
- Richard answers that if you look at the polls about UFOs,
majority now believe that UFOs are real. Those who do not
believe in UFOs are a minority now. But, he says, that is also
the way of aproach. If you believe in that stuff you will find
arguments and if you don't believe in that stuff you will also
find arguments.
- Robert says that science is a process which is open to new
claims. But, he says, the reason why some people are continuing
to investigate some areas where it is clear that they don't
exist, is because they were involved long time in that. They
have invested much emotion and money in that area and for them it
is hard now to admit that they have failed.
- John Wilson asks is the role of modern crusader attractive.
For example if you claim that you know something and all others
are saying it is not true then it is probably an interesting
role for crusaders and attractive.
- Susan answers that he started with that point "I have
knowledge and the rest of others are wrong". She started by
investigating Out of Body Experiences and telepathy because she
believed in that. But she said later she has changed her mind.
She also says that some people are not ready to change their
minds altough the evidence is suggests other conclusions.
- John Wilson then says that Graham has done the poll at Bush
house to see how ordenery people feel about para-science.
================================================================
5th PART OF THE SHOW
- RECORDED SURVEY
- BBC plays recorded "un-scientific survey" done by Graham Eastern.
- Most people surveyed state that they believe in strange events
and that they want to see better scientific work and
investigation of those subjects.
================================================================
6th. PART OF THE SHOW
- PARA-NORMAL INFLUENCE
- John Wilson asks does TV and radio form the views of the
general public and why do people believe in those subjects.
- Jane says that people always want to believe in something and
it seems that religion is not attractive for them any more. That
also may be linked with our past, imagination and younger days.
- Richard says that it could be s substitute for religion. He
also says that if you are emotionaly crushed (the death of
someone that you knew) then its easy to get hooked by that
field. Pop culture and media also has an influence and role in
that.
- John Wilson concludes that it is the chicken and egg problem.
What's happened in the past? Events or media influence? Then
John Wilson says that today science is so powerful so it is
sometimes attractive to say that there is no answer always for
everything and that could be also the reason. It is also
attractive to say "there is more."
- Robert says that 2 extremes exist. First are the people who
are afraid of science. They become connected with myths and ESP
and so on. At the other extreme are the people who love science
too much. Those are, he says, probably the UFO people. Both
groups are pseudo-science.
- Richard says that there are also some positive things in
the paranormal. When you have some strange experience you can
become interested in science if you want to solve your problem
and that event.
- Jane says that paranormal programmes have influence on the
opinion of the general public so maybe we will have more
scientific work in those areas in the future because the public
wants to know.
- Susan states that we must be very cautious with paranormal
areas because they are also dangerous. You can spend much money
on the astrologers and other people who are claiming that
they have some powers. So other effects are also there because
wrong decisions can be based on false data.
================================================================
7th. PART OF THE SHOW
- PROGRESS OF PARA-SCIENCE
- John Wilson concludes that ethics are in question inside
para-science. Then he asks the guests what they think there will
be any progress inside para-science in the future, for 50 to 100
years or it will be completly debunked.
- John Durant answers that he is glad that he can answer that
question because he will not be alive then. He thinks that
borders between science and paranormal will probably move but
there will also still be others who will believe in some
things that don't exist.
- Richard answers that maybe we will find out more because we
will have better tools in the future but he also conludes that
he wouldn't want to put money on that.
- Jane says that she and her magazine have been around for 25
years now and that she expects that in the future there will be
some new aproaches towards the problem and that we will learn
more about the un-conciousness and physical world.
- Robert Park concludes that there always will be people who
will be "alienated" from the world and who will believe some
weird stuff.
- Susan says that she will not research ESP any more because it
exist. But she says that maybe in the future we will much better
understand out of body experiance because we will understand the
brain then. But she conludes that there will always be people
who will believe in souls and life after death and they will not
find answers there.
================================================================
8th. PART OF SHOW
- SIGNING OFF
- John Wilson conludes the program with the statement that
listeners should continue to ask the questions about
para-science. John signs off the show.
================================================================
9. PART OF SHOW
- CREDITS
================================================================
NOTE: Please note that the spelling of the names in this file is
not maybe exactly right. Unfortunately I have material only in
audio form so maybe the written names could contain some
errors. Please send corrections send to 9a4ag@9a0tcp.ampr.org
Altough this BBC programme had more of a debunking slant than
progress for ufology, it is a fact that ufology is being
presented more and more by mainstream media. Scientific debates
about ufology are happening more and more. It is important that
we all are talking about the subject.
================================================================
RECORDED AND TRANSCRIBED BY:
================================================================
AGETI - WORLD WIDE HAMRADIO GROUP
ANALYTICAL GROUP FOR EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL INFORMATIONS
----------------------------------------------------------------
MAIN SYSOP: | POST ADDRESS:
9A4AG - GIULIANO MARINKOVICC - JIMMY | ANTE STARCHEVICCA 25/C
| 23000 ZADAR
| CROATIA, EUROPE
----------------------------------------------------------------
TELEPHONE: | PACKET RADIO ADDRESS:
for international calls: | 9A4AG@9A0YSI.SBK.HRV.EU
+385-23-430-970 |
for calls inside Croatia: | E-MAIL ADDRESS:
023/430-970 | 9a4ag@s55tcp.ampr.org
| or
| 9a4ag@9a0tcp.ampr.org
| or
| 9a4ag@clarc.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
INTERACTIVE CONFERENCE MODE | AGETI WEB SITE ADDRESS (Created by 9a1cto):
| http://public.srce.hr/~ivangloc/
AMPRn WW UFO channel 1947 | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/3099/
| 9A4AG's HOME PAGE:
| http://www.clarc.org/~9a4ag
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
AGETI IS A GROUP OF RADIO-AMATEURS WHO ARE EXCHANGING WORLD WIDE
INFORMATIONS, VIEWS AND NEWS ABOUT THE EXTRA-TERRESTIRAL SUBJECT!!!
==========================================================================
UFO UpDates - Toronto -
updates@globalserve.net
Operated by Errol Bruce-Knapp - ++ 416-696-0304
A Hand-Operated E-Mail Subscription Service for the Study of UFO Related
Phenomena.
To subscribe please send your first and last name to
updates@globalserve.net
Message submissions should be sent to the same address.
|
Link it to the appropriate Ufologist or UFO Topic page. |
Archived as a public service by Area 51 Research Center which is not
responsible for content.
Financial support for this web server is provided by the
Research Center Catalog.
Software by Glenn Campbell.
Technical contact:
webmaster@ufomind.com