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From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:06:35 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:20:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Crop Circles/Balls Of Light


Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:41:30 -0400
From: Max Burns AlienHype1'@Aol.com
Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Crop Circles/Balls Of Light
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:41:30 -0400
From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Crop Circles/Balls Of Light
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>


>From: Max Burns <AlienHype1@aol.com>
>Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:40:59 EDT
>To: updates@globalserve.net
>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Crop Circles/Balls Of Light

>Mr Spurrier, What is your opinion? Have you studied in detail
>the possible options available for the origin of the phenomena?

>I have no immediate opinion on the BOL but have deduced from the
>evidence that the circle makers have presented that they are not
>directly responsible for the creation of crop formations. Any
>evidence to the contrary is gratefully appreciated.

May I ask if the BOL are not directly responsible, to what area
are they responsible with regard to the crop circles?

>Do you offer any evidence that the lights in question are not
>involved in the creation of some of the crop circles that appear
>around the UK and the rest of the World?

>Only that like many other things such as a Zanussi
>fridge/freezer, Citroen Xantia, and the Starship Enterprise etc.
>as they have never been witnessed making one, however, circle
>makers have.

Oh yes the circles makers without doubt have been and do create
a percentage of the circles that appear on the ground during the
growing season.

>Zanussi fridge/freezer, Citroen Xantia, and the Starship Enterprise
>etc

Get a check up from the neck up will ya

>If you answered no to the previous question, then these lights
>as a possible cause should not be discounted and the data should
>stand with all data regarding all peoples idea's and opinion's
>about the origin of the crop circle enigma

Why? circle makers actually creating formations is a reality.

The problem of the matter really is down to a good old time and
motion study, you see if you divide the number of circles
created by the amount of people involved in the formation of man
made crop circles and include the number of nights available in
the year for the production of these circles, with all the miles
that would have to be covered and the fact that it is only dark
for 4-5 hours during a large aspect of the time frame, they
simply would not have the manpower or the time to have completed
such a large scale almost military style run operation. Never
mind the fact that under supervision the crop circle makers
could not reproduce the bending without fracture on the stalk of
the crop circles, when they were asked to reproduce one of the
complex patterns the ones with the undamaged stalks.

>I believe you and I both know that, what was being infered was
>that the gathering of people with an interest, seemed to
>consider the footage worth a viewing.

>Crop circle investigators gather in Wiltshire attempting to
>prove that et's are behind the creation of formations. UFO
>footage in the area do not constitute proof that they are
>responsible for creating crop formations.

Well I do not know about the rest of the readers of updates but
I was debating glowing orbs and whether they are creating some
of the crop circles that appear like clockwork every year, still
carry on about something else if you like

Roy said
>Are Military Helicopter pilots been sent out to chase Earth
>Lights or even optical illusions?

I said
>Probably not.

you said
>Guess again, not according to the Colin Andrews helicopter
>footage as seen on the US program Sightings.. to which the UK
>military even denied that they had any helicopters in the area
>that day..

>You are saying they are they are earth lights or optical
>illusions, no?

Ok Tony try to keep up, the applicable part of the question was:

>Are Military Helicopter pilots been sent out to chase Earth Lights

You said, probably not

I said, guess again and then supplied information that the the
military have indeed investigated the BOL which was caught on
film and then confirms the military denial of any such activity,
they said we did not have any helicopters in the area which is a
lie as confirmed by the video footage

>I  still lack evidence from you and Roy that these are responsible
>for crop formations.

Thats just typical of you back seat of the car ufologists, why
dont you get out of the back seat of the car and go out and
collect some information, for one I am not trying to supply you
with evidence and although I have not spoken with Roy Hale, I do
not belive that his mission in life is to furnish you with this
proof, which you have allready stated

>Perhaps those allegedly
>made by anomalous balls of lights should be considered hoaxed,
>if it can be proved they have actually created a formation..

These were your exact words Tony I ask you what would be the
point of trying to supply this evidence if discovered you have
allready stated that if it can be prooved, it should be
considerd a hoax.you have allready decided I however am open to
all the available hypoth's regarding the crop circle mystery,
and I hope that one day through sterling investigations the
truth about the crop circle mystery will be uncovered.

And if it turns out to be Doug without Dave or Dave without
Doug, I cannot remember which one has passed away
Then that will do for me

>No, I ask you, where is the evidence that BOL are responsible
>for crop formations, after all that was the original discussion
>point not whether BOL actually exist.

You are the _ONE_ who the that started talking about UFOs and
aliens, fridge freezers, and star trek, and other stuff too
mundane to be repeated again

>Mr Spurrier, what do you think is going on, regarding these
>light formations?

>What I think is irrelevant.

Agreed you dont know what you are talking about

>There is proof that circle makers can and do create crop
>formations.

Well done Tony another brilliant investigation, yes and the
postman also delivers the mail. No one is disputing that some of
the circles have been made by this band of merry men with crop
fetishes.

>Roy, I mean Max,

Memory going is it, getting to late for you, perhaps a nap and a
warm milk

>I don't have a problem with BOL being anomalous unidentified objects

That good to hear because they are

>but I do with crop formations being promoted as messages from
>other worlds.

Well you have your problem its your right and you might well
deserve it, However the other hypoth's are also allowed space
under the helmet of free speech and expression of thought like
it or lump it. or you could raise a peoples army and seize
control of the country.

It could be your first new law when you get in power

>So what you are saying is that if evidence surfaces that prooves
>that, some circles may have been created by the balls of light.
>You will move to call the thing hoaxed, if it can be prooved
>that the balls of light have actually created a formation..

>The optimum points here are that you say " may have been created
>by the balls of light", of course many things could in theory
>have made them BUT circles makers have proved that they can and
>do make these formations.

OK lets hold this thought, you too Tony its Max not Roy, it was
you who said.

>If evidence emerges that prooves that BOL has caused a formation,

THAT WAS PROOF EMERGES WASNT IT?

>It should be considered a hoax.

Why would you want to discredit debunk what ever something that
you said if prooved should be considered a hoax?

Yes let's all get past the fact that some of the formations we all know
are made by the so called circle makers, No one is disputing that
if it makes you feel better, I agreed earlier with that statement and
I still do

>Well that's hardly the comment of a sceptic even, at least true
>sceptics the likes of Andy Denne. are always willing to look at
>any evidence, and simply decide what the evidence shows, you
>however are saying that if the balls of light can be shown to
>have created the pattern, then its a hoax.

>Provide evidence that BOL do make the formations and I will
>consider it, but to date no evidence is forthcoming.

Pray tell what would be the point of trying to get you to agree
with evidence if supplied, as you have allready voted.. And im
sure no one is supprised to hear its mundane choice or bust,
havent you got anything better to do

>What would you do ignore the evidence?

>No, I have conversed with some circle makers and they would
>likely agree that I have looked at the phenomenon from a neutral
>stand point.

WE BOTH KNOW THAT IS NOT TRUE, SCROLL BACK UP THE
PAGE YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF

>Why is this your stance?

>Because I don't personally get upset if the answers don't go my
>way, it appears others do.

I am so glad to hear that, but the question was refering to your
statement, when you stated that if:

>If evidence emerges that prooves that BOL has caused a formation,
>It should be considered a hoax.

So I will repeat it for you in the hope of getting an answer
which the subject matter will be about BOL and crops circles,
you said

>If evidence emerges that prooves that BOL has caused a formation,
>It should be considered a hoax.

I asked?

>Why is this your stance?

>However I do believe that on some of your supposed research
>expo's to Sizewell in search of the large black so called Flying
>Triangle, ufology seemed to all of a sudden been left on the
>back seat so to speak.

>You've only heard about the sky watches at Sizewell,

Yes and when the story was being told to me I had to ask them to
stop, because it was all starting to sound like a mills and boon
novel without the talk dark and hansome hero..

>Perhaps Roy should investigate your answers better for you, or
>whatever.

Investigate my answers I am sorry i did not realise it was a
quiz, i though that my comments and questions poised to your
post were more than adequate, and why I would want or need too
now or at any time in the future, have to ask some body else to
voice my opinion, I am not short of a few words, and I am quite
happy thank you, making my own decisions and asking my own
questions, why would I want to ask you questions on behalf of
ROY Hale, you will not answer my questions, he can wait his
turn.

Can we go with the what ever, these are my questions in reply to
your postings on this group...

Can anyone say paranoid real quick five time while looking in
the mirror?

>Are you just looking for a paranormal escape to life?

"Why do you know where I can buy one cheap." I am into the ufo
subject to try to gain answers to questions raised because of
the large amount of unexplained at this time phenomena, what
ever the prooven answers are if or when they come.. Will be just
fine and dandy for me. not escape choice in looking into a
subject that i find interesting.

How about you?

>however, if evidence does surface then it should be considered  .
>but over this period of time it seems unlikely that it ever will..

What period of time are you talking about the time taken for me
to respond to your reply to my post?

>Pray tell Mr Spurrier, can you show us this evidence that
>although we all know that some circles are hoaxes, you can now
>proove through that all the cirlcles are hoaxes..
>All of them can't be hoaxes, or they'd be genuine.

Well actually you are wrong the premise of the question was, we
know that some of the circles are being hoaxed when the question
is coming from the standpoint the that the BOL  could be
involved in making these circles, the circle makers are the hoax
bandits, or is the BOL copying off the circle makers.

As the bone of contention is that we know that the circle makers are
making there own circles, and that it is the opinion of a large number
of researchers into the subject that they suspect  that the BOL
is either making or involved in the creation of some of the
circles, and therefore is refered to as the originator,

>Perhaps you're better off talking to the circle makers themselves.,

What and have them continue with this sharade when they make a
few circles and take credit for the better ones that they did
not make but who is gonna say, the BOL cannot shout up well not
yet anyway

I have spent some time around at the home of Nick Nicholson,
crop circle researcher (in the field hands on) who also produces
the excellent Journal The circular review, and he makes a good
cup of tea to boot. As he lives only ten minutes from myself.

And he would have to disagree with the circle makers.

>that's where I drew my conclusions

That would be nice but it would appear that you are drawing
there conclusions not your conclusions, and you have allready
stated that what you have to say is irelervent.

>So maybe they can burst your paranormal bubble for you Roy,
>I mean Max.

I see your memory is going again, here's an important tip, the
first name in at the top of this mail has the name of the person
on it who you are responding to..make things easy to follow,
Errol the Bruce,  had this done so that people from lots of
different places around mundane planet earth can interact and
understand the format easily it also makes the job of formatting
for the updates crew at little easier if you forget my name then
scroll back its at the top

So if you wish to call me by some one else's name its ok as you
have already informed me that what you think is irelervent.
Low self esteem and paranoia that a bad mix.

>In no more than twenty words, can you give a brief but mundane
>explanation, as to the origin of the whole thing?

>If you mean ufology then no, can you?

There is nothing mundane about ufology.

>Max I think you have both over stepped the mark on your sarcasm,
>you seem to think I have a problem with ufology.

Your contradicting your self again, you said
>Because I don't personally get upset if the answers don't go my
>way, it appears others do.

I do not think you have got a problem with ufology i think you
have got a problem with some unknown pecieved threat from Roy
Hale. I dont care about what you think is going on with Roy
Hale, I have responded to your post, with questions and comment,
to which the purpose the list sevice is designed to do, and you
have spent your time taliking about  this other person and
washing machines, i do not care about anything other than have
you answered the questions that i put to you, just me on my own
no help needed, And you have not

You have got a problem, paranoid

>Tony
>Proof by procrastination
>Watch the BBC test card

Why is there a crop circle in the center?

Max Burns  ( On his own)